Recommendations for first flintlock

[APG]

Several months back I got my first flintlock rifle. It is a Traditions Kentucky flintlock in .50 caliber and I changed the lock with a L&R replacement lock and I'm happy as can be. You can go the Kibler route and your sure to be happy but it's more money than I wanted to spend and I'm kind of hard on my equipment so I didn't want to ding up a work of art that the Kiblers are. I also recently add my second flintlock a .32 caliber Pedersoli scout and I'm real happy with it too. What I'm trying to say is get what makes you happy, not what other folks want you to get. Good thing is that this forum is a goldmine of information but do what feels right for you. Enjoy.

 

[morehops52]

Looking to buy my first flintlock, preferably full stock and .45 caliber. Would like to stay under $1000, any thoughts or suggestions. Would like a gun already built, not a kit.

After re-reading your OP I realized that I saw almost exactly what you're looking for and it fits in with my above post (buy now, save later). A friend of mine got me interested in BP in the mid 70's. He was shooting a CVA Kentucky rifle in 45 flint. Not the best quality but they did what they were supposed to. If you could find one used it shouldn't cost much at all but pay good attention to the bore. The money saved now could go a long way towards getting a really good rifle later made to your specs.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Okay so…. To stay on track are there any other companies that make full stock flintlocks, besides traditions and pedersoli? Since most are saying kibler, are there any others companies like him? If I’m going to spend $1500-2000 on a kit, than how much is a custom build?

While I see both sides of this argument and lean towards the pay more now crowd having went the other way on more than one thing and then later spending way the heck more money than I had ever planned on. If you are open to a kit Cabin Creek kits are a tad cheaper the Kibler kits and so far as I know the listed price is the total price for the basic kits. I've not done one of their kits yet so can't say what their skill level it. The Kibler kits are so refined they can be put together out of the box and shot with minimal work.
Pennsylvania Mountain Rifle – Cabin Creek Muzzleloading

Also I haven't seen anyone mention the classifieds yet. Always some good stuff popping up there.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Flintlock mechanisms not up to the task? Does the hammer (****) fall? Does it make sparks? does it ignite the main charge? If the answer to all three is Yes than what it not up to the task? Yes a particular lock or rifle might not be a quick as a Chambers lock or as accurate as a custom barrel but that doesn't mean it down grades to useless. Again, there are .lots of older flintlocks that will do the job until OP can get the better rifle he will want more. Like many here I started with a T/C. Later on I realized I wanted a "real" period rifle and after saving my simoleans I now have a beautiful Lancaster rifle with all the good stuff.

If the answer to the second question is no, then the answer to the second question will also be no. What is important is that the lock makes a lot of sparks that fall in the pan, then the rifle will fire. Well, unless the touch hole is blocked or way too small in diameter. But the touch hole is another problem that can usually be easily fixed. The lock that has poor geometry will eat flints or send sparks away from the pan. Fixing the geometry of the lock to properly strike the frizzen requires adjustments that many of us can't make. Sure the hammer will fall and may even open the frizzen, but we need sparks in the pan. But morehops is right, these entry level flint locks can do the job, but it may take some work.

 

[MDHunter]

Check out Black Powder Maniacs YouTube channel. Hes shooting Pedersoli trade gun and Lyman Hawken among others. It’s seems the only time he has misfires is when he pushes his flints too far. He even shoots them upside down and they still go off!

 

[nkbj]

What I've found shooting TC, Lyman and Traditions flinters is that when they don't go bang it's because I didn't do what I was s'posed to. The Traditions fifty smoothbore critter gitter made from a "Deerhunter" is absolutely reliable. Need a picture to show the buffalo horn butt plate and wiping stick but here she is.

 

[smokepolehall]

Been reading all of the posts, $1000 samolians or less. You won't find any new Traditions sparkers that are in a .45 cal. I have a Woodsman Hawken in a .50 n it works. Now the Pedersoli does have a .45 n i have the Scout, the Lock is small & its not 1st class in anyway. The barrel is accurate on mine, but i would never buy another Scout sparker. The models with the larger Lock would be a much better choice with that Company. If i compared my Traditions Hawken to my Scout Pedersoli, the Traditions would be the Winner. Now i don't own a model of Pedersoli with the bigger lock or my opinion might be different.

 

[Bushfire]

Been reading all of the posts, $1000 samolians or less. You won't find any new Traditions sparkers that are in a .45 cal. I have a Woodsman Hawken in a .50 n it works. Now the Pedersoli does have a .45 n i have the Scout, the Lock is small & its not 1st class in anyway. The barrel is accurate on mine, but i would never buy another Scout sparker. The models with the larger Lock would be a much better choice with that Company. If i compared my Traditions Hawken to my Scout Pedersoli, the Traditions would be the Winner. Now i don't own a model of Pedersoli with the bigger lock or my opinion might be different.

Your Pedersoli was a kit wasn't it? Did you polish all the lock parts?

 

[Erwan]

Been reading all of the posts, $1000 samolians or less. You won't find any new Traditions sparkers that are in a .45 cal. I have a Woodsman Hawken in a .50 n it works. Now the Pedersoli does have a .45 n i have the Scout, the Lock is small & its not 1st class in anyway. The barrel is accurate on mine, but i would never buy another Scout sparker. The models with the larger Lock would be a much better choice with that Company. If i compared my Traditions Hawken to my Scout Pedersoli, the Traditions would be the Winner. Now i don't own a model of Pedersoli with the bigger lock or my opinion might be different.

There is no possible comparison between a Traditions (ex Dikar,/Jukar/Ardesa) gun which are relatively low-cost Spanish-made and an Italian Pedersoli gun which will always be far superior. Even if, on the other hand, an Ardesa/Traditions gun is sufficient to start with, it will be far from being worth a Pedersoli gun...
I don't know how much a gun like the Pedersoli "Frontier" costs in the USA, but here in Absurdistan, it's a gun worth on average ~745.00€ (~787.65 USD), so not too expensive as a first flintlock gun.
The flintlock Pedersoli is good and will never have anything to envy an Ardesa/Traditions flintlock: having as many Pedersoli flintlocks as Ardesa I can recognize the difference in quality Pedersoli (for caps and flinters)...

 

[smokepolehall]

Your Pedersoli was a kit wasn't it? Did you polish all the lock parts?

Yes it was, i have been filing on the springs & the bottom of Frizzen & polishing them. Even if i ever get it to stop breaking flints & get it shooting i would never buy another Pedersoli with that small Lock. I just feel there are better Locks being made. I actually feel like a smuck for buying it. Friend had told me that Pedersoli was a good Brand. I don't find him at fault at all. Things happen. At this time i would not buy another ML or kits made from another country.

 

[smokepolehall]

There is no possible comparison between a Traditions (ex Dikar,/Jukar/Ardesa) gun which are relatively low-cost Spanish-made and an Italian Pedersoli gun which will always be far superior. Even if, on the other hand, an Ardesa/Traditions gun is sufficient to start with, it will be far from being worth a Pedersoli gun...
I don't know how much a gun like the Pedersoli "Frontier" costs in the USA, but here in Absurdistan, it's a gun worth on average ~745.00€ (~787.65 USD), so not too expensive as a first flintlock gun.
The flintlock Pedersoli is good and will never have anything to envy an Ardesa/Traditions flintlock: having as many Pedersoli flintlocks as Ardesa I can recognize the difference in quality Pedersoli (for caps and flinters)...

Your entitled to your opinion & the facts you have found with the Pedersoli. I on the other hand you could not pour me on another Pedersoli Scout rock sparker, its the pits !. I have noticed on this Forum that if a member types their facts on findings that differ from theirs. Its starts the lets tell him off that he is wrong n knows nothing.

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

Yes it was, i have been filing on the springs & the bottom of Frizzen & polishing them. Even if i ever get it to stop breaking flints & get it shooting i would never buy another Pedersoli with that small Lock. I just feel there are better Locks being made. I actually feel like a smuck for buying it. Friend had told me that Pedersoli was a good Brand. I don't find him at fault at all. Things happen. At this time i would not buy another ML or kits made from another country.

What problems have you had with that small Pedersoli lock? By word of mouth that I do muzzleloaders I picked up an unfired "Hawken rifle" that has what they call a small hunting lock. Have yet to shoot it but have tinkered with it some in finding out how it likes the flint positioned.

 

[Erwan]

I have noticed on this Forum that if a member types their facts on findings that differ from theirs. Its starts the lets tell him off that he is wrong n knows nothing.

I don't want to say that you are wrong: I am just stating facts...
If Ardesa weapons are good for you that's a fact, but if they are not up to par for me that's also a fact...
I own three Pedersoli rifles and five Ardesa/Traditions, just enough to give an opinion.

Can you admit that opinions and experiences differ or does that hurt your sensibilities?

 

[smokepolehall]

I don't want to say that you are wrong: I am just stating facts...
If Ardesa weapons are good for you that's a fact, but if they are not up to par for me that's also a fact...
I own three Pedersoli rifles and five Ardesa/Traditions, just enough to give an opinion.

Can you admit that opinions and experiences differ or does that hurt your sensibilities?

I don't have any problems with your Facts or Opinions ! You are entitled to them, but you quoted my post then told the World that i am wrong about Pedersoli. Your facts n my facts are different in the finding & outcome. So now once again you have taken me to task ! So i am telling you or anyone else that my Scout Flintlock came with problems n i am trying to work through them. The op asked & i gave my Facts for him to ponder upon or mull it over as he decides what he may buy. I really did not post my findings for other members to say i am wrong. You should direct your findings n facts to the Thread maker n let him read them. This is the very reason i don't post much here on this Forum.

 

[Erwan]

One more guy in my box of complicated cases...

 

[smokepolehall]

What problems have you had with that small Pedersoli lock? By word of mouth that I do muzzleloaders I picked up an unfired "Hawken rifle" that has what they call a small hunting lock. Have yet to shoot it but have tinkered with it some in finding out how it likes the flint positioned.

The problems i have had is it breaks the Blk. English flints on avg, when fired twice. Last time i shot it, 3 flints were ruined in 7 strikes of frizzen before it fired. Maybe a sorry bunch of flints on this dz. i bought. I have been filing n polishing the springs & the parts involved to move easier for a faster lock time & less resistance to the flint striking the frizzen

 

[Ballshooter]

Save up a little more and just get a Kibler SMR.

 

[SDSmlf]

Looking to buy my first flintlock, preferably full stock and .45 caliber. Would like to stay under $1000, any thoughts or suggestions. Would like a gun already built, not a kit.

For a sub $1000 full stock 45 caliber flintlock suggest you look at used Dixie, Pedersoli or possibly CVA offerings. Buy one with a clean bore and you can scratch your itch and still get your money back at a later date. Buy new, not likely.

Just an observation, have four Pedersoli locks, two of the smaller type. All work great. A 32 caliber Scout has become a favorite squirrel and plinking gun.

T/C full stocks don’t exist unless restocked ‘custom’.

I am not sold on Traditions guns. Just helped a guy install a L&R lock in his Traditions rifle after some unsolvable issues. He had assembled a flint kit, then the lock failed when the tumbler literally crumbled. Traditions denied the warranty claim because he had disassembled the lock (basically to remove the tumbler) on kit gun. Customer service at it’s best. And for the record, I was not privy to the conversation, just the replacement of the lock and a very upset customer.

 

[Coinneach]

Why 45 and not 50. Old timers alway said start with a 50 if you are going to hunt. Can hunt about anything with it. I did and wasn’t ever sorry

A built rifle is way better than a third world production gun period.

Get any kit, I had my kit custom made with the parts I wanted.
Way more Period correct than production guns, if yer into that scene.

I bought the best parts I could get at the time. You will not find a production gun with a Rice barrel, Chambers lock, or a fine piece of Tenn black walnut as I got from Muzzle loader Supply.

So you recommend Muzzle Loader Supply JT ?

 

[Coinneach]

I've been shooting patent breeches for decades. Didn't even know they were patent breeches. I've never had an issue at the range or hunting. I guess thoroughly cleaning with Dawn and warm water goes a long way toward reliability.

So what was Dawn wearing when you were doing the warm water thing together ?