recreating 1625

[paulnfld]

Hi,

I am researching the canadian fur trade, the beginning, and I am wondering what type of gun a courer de bois would have carried at or around the year 1625.

I am new to the sport, but not that new, having built and refinished flintlocks professionally in Nova Scotia

I appreciate your help

Thanks
Paul

 

Wow. 1625. That is pretty early. I'll have to do some research on that. Guns were not as common back then in general. Could have been a matchlock or other early lock style (snaphaunce, wheellock, etc.), although the true (French) flintlock I believe dates in Europe from about 1600 (see Torsten Lenk's excellent text on the subject). Were there coureurs de bois in 1625?

 

[paulnfld]

its possible there were not courer de bois, but that is of little consequence, I want to recreate a fur trader, in canada (or the colonies) from that period. I'm pretty flexible, I just want to play with guns.

 

[Okwaho]

First of all the true flintlock was invented in France sometime in about the third or fourth decade of the 17th century so in 1625 the most appropriate gun would be a matchlock.As to other aspects of the early fur trade I suggest "Adventurers In The New World,The Saga of the Coureurs Des Bois" by Georges-Hebert Germain which can be bought from The Canadian Museum of Civilization for $39.95{U.S.?}.1625 is pretty early for Coureurs des bois and it should be noted that there were two types of adventurers, Voyageurs who were employed by the traders to paddle the big freight canoes to and from the Pays d'en Haut{high country}and Coureurs des bois who were self employed entrepeneurs either with a licence or without one in which case they were illegally operating and subject to heavy penalties.There is a lot of material on Canadian history in the 16th-19th centuries plus the Jesuit Relations which are online.

The French word fusil{ pronounced fuzee}in this period denoted any gun fired with a flint and steel other than a matchlock whereas mousquets{muskets} referred to matchlocks.Fusils were slow in appearing in the military but appeared on the trade lists as early as 1662.I have a page from the trade lists which states:"For the voyage to Canada...,regarding the ammunitions which consist of powder,muskets,and slow matches[used for matchlocks]. I brought them with me from Belle Isle[isle on the coast of brittany].If fusils are needed and that the order does not exceed two or three hundred I can assure you that they will be found quickly".This statement is dated 1662 and in 1687 a man named Piton supplied 500 fusils for Canada. We really don't know much about these very early fusils although I have a pretty good idea what they looked like.

Good luck
Tom Patton

 

[paulnfld]

ok, like I said I am flexible, what is the earliest model flint lock that would have been available, my only criteria is that it has to be before 1650

thanks again

 

[bnail]

Were there Couer de Bois in 1625?

There were CDB durng this time, and they were probable the only true CDB in my book.
Read Champlain's Journal entries. Probable the most famous was Etienne Brule. He was Champlain's valet who was "traded" to the Huron in an exchange program that Champlain started, but he stayed, and "Went native."
This era is very well researched. I've wanted to do 17th century canada for years but the interest just isn't here.
Also, read up on Jean Nicolet. he explored the great lakes about 1640 or so.
Also, the company of 100 Associates was formed about 1626 or so, so you could be an employee for them.
KEEP ME POSTED! This has been a burning topic for me ever since I first studied it in grade school. Also, I used to work at the Father Marquette National Memorial and Museum,(1670s period) so I've acquired a little info on 17th century Canadian resources, and would be glad to share what little I have.
Best of luck to ya.
BTW, astrolabes are being reproduced if you want to get into 17th century navigation.
Also, go here: Jesuit Relations

Cheers!

 

[paulnfld]

awesome, thanks!

 

So much for my memory, I should have written 1700 instead of 1600 for the flintlock--and Okwaho says late 17th century, so there would be no true flintlock pre-1650. There were predecessors, but they would have been rare and Okwaho is correct in suggesting the use of a matchlock. When I get back to my references I'll have a better answer. I was under the impression that flintlock trade guns came into Canada by the late 1600s--again, I'll have to check my dates.

 

from what I have read Brule was an explorer and interpreter and the term 'first coureur de bois' was applied to him by later writers. But he certainly fits the picture of a pre 1625 French frontiersman. A real adventurer.

 

[bnail]

Mike I almost forgot your connection: Acadians/Cajuns,:hmm:

 

well, I have very little Acadian blood in me--mostly Welsh and Scots-Irish and a trace of Cherokee, but one of my Mom's ancestors may have been an Acadian. The area I live in had coureurs de bois and other French habitants and military from the founding of Arkansas Post in 1686 and Ft St Jean Baptiste ca. 1716. I have been working on a French personna ca. 1750.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Tom, I thought the true flintlock was developed around 1610-1615 in France by Marin Le Bourgeoys. Has new information come to light?

 

[bnail]

That's an awfully early date Russ; I don't think I've ever seen that before. I'm not challanging you on this, but I'd sure love to have a source on this. do you have any titles that you can point me to? My resources for "French Locks" are mostly by Hamilton. :thumbsup:

 

Tom, I thought the true flintlock was developed around 1610-1615 in France by Marin Le Bourgeoys. Has new information come to light?

well, that is why I said around 1600 (above)trying to remember what Lenk said in his classic text on the development of the flintlock--BUT, Okwaho is the expert in this area, so I bow to his date (until I get home and check). :hatsoff:

 

[bnail]

[quote(until I get home and check). :hatsoff: [/quote]
Mike, don't tell me you're posting from work, tch tch tch :nono:
Who's Lenk, and what did he write?

 

[quote(until I get home and check). :hatsoff:

Mike, don't tell me you're posting from work, tch tch tch :nono:
Who's Lenk, and what did he write? [/quote]

Torsten Lenk wrote the definitive history of the development of the French flintlock as a Ph.D. thesis and it was published as a book. It is available as a used book through alibris, etc. It is tough reading because it is a difficult translation from the original Scandinavian tongue, plus his text and figures are not well tied together. I heard about it from Okwaho and bought my own copy and struggled through it. Lots of pics of high end French guns.

 

[Okwaho]

When I first began studying early French and later English guns all I had was Lenk who said in 1939 that the true flintlock originated in Framce Ca. 1610-1615 a date that has apparently been found to be[url] incorrect.In[/url] 1977 Wallace B. Gusler and James D. Lavin wrote "Decorated Firearms 1540-1870 From the Collection of Clay P. Bedford" They concluded,based on research subsequent to Lenk's monumental work that,"In view of the evidence at hand,it is not realistic to conclude that the flintlock made it's appearance in France at any time other than the third decade of the seventeeth century."{P.6}.Additionally in "American Shoulder Arms" Vol. I: Colonial and Revolutionary War Arms by George D. Moller,{1993} P.24,"However,Lenk's attribution of the earliest true flintlock to French gunmaker Marin le Bourgeoys circa 1610-1615 has been found to be in error.It now appears that the true flintlock was developed in France sometime between 1630 and 1638"
It should be noted that the "English lock" developed in England about 1650 in response to the French true flintlock and was manufactured in England until Ca.1680. It had by then begun the evolution into a true flintlock with a half cock notch and vertical sear."A Re-Examination of the English Lock" by Beverly Ann Straub {1990},A paper presented to The American Society Of Arms Collectors.

I hope this helps
Tom Patton

 

[Okwaho]

Mike, Thanks for your compliment but you know when you're infallible and a sex symbol to boot it's awfully hard to be humble.
Tom :blah: :thumbsup:

 

[Itegorm]

Paul,
Good to hear you want to do early stuff. There are a few of us out here that do early to mid 17th century and have been doing it for a few years. As for a gun, I would say matchlock is the way to go for the first 30 years or so of the 17th cent. Heck that is what Champlain used in his legendary fight with the Iroquios. And it seems that many of the Salliers (first French military to Canada) were armed with matchlocks in mid century as well. However, an early flintlock or a snaphaunce would be a good call for stuff after the 1640's. Personally I jump back and forth between my matchlock and an early style dutch flintlock (looks like there were lots of dutch guns out there early on). Drop me a PM if you would I would like to talk with you a bit more on the early period stuff.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Tom, I was citing "Firearms in Colonial America" by M. L. Brown, published in 1980. That's why I asked about new information--these days a 25 year old source is often out of date. Brown mentions a piece with a true flintlock and dated 1615. and another on an arquebus made for Louis XIII shortly after he took the throne in 1610. The paragraph is found on page 77.