Refitting Indian Bess bayonets

[Brasilikilt]

Hello everyone

I got one of those Brown Bess bayonets from TOTW a while ago.....Yes they're cheap, but it's not like I'm actually going to use it for combat.....
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(r...tId=9&subId=52&styleId=188&partNum=BAYONET-BB

Anyways, there's A LOT of slop.....the slot for the bayonet lug is too wide, and the socket size is perhaps 1/8" too large for my barrel.

These bayonets were obviously intended for the Indian-made Brown bess repros with thicker barrels, not an Italian Pedersoli.

Is the metal of decent enough quality to be welded with a regular MIG welder?
I figured with some careful hacksaw cutting I can narrow the slot for the lug, and with some careful welding, I can join it back together, and finish it off with files and sandpaper.

It's just the metal they use in India is of questionable quality, and I don't want to zap it with the welder and have it disintegrate like so much pot metal.

Should I sell the ill fitting bayonet to hopefully get my money back, and put the money towards one of these?
http://www.gggodwin.com/CartGenie/prod-67.htm

I'm thinking that a retrofit might be more trouble than it's worth.....but if I pull it off, I would save $40 plus dollars that would be spent buying a "better" bayonet that might fit just as poorly.

Has anyone had the same bayonet problems as myself?

Any comments and suggestions will be appreciated

thanks

Iain

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

That is a tough call regarding reshaping your bayonet. What are the chances of you buying the Italian bayonet to compare with the Indian one?
You might be in for some heartache trying to make the bayonet fit your Bess. If I could, I would compare them side by side. Then make the decision as to which one to keep.

 

[LRB]

I would say, go for it. I don't think a good welder would have any problem with it, using the appropriate sticks. I think most of the bad rep for India steel comes from it being of low carbon and the poor workmanship shown in parts made from it, and it being used for parts that should be of higher carbon, or deeply case hardened rather than the shallow CH they do.

 

[FPDoc]

I would try to shim the socket with soldered in or epoxied brass stock after mocking it to fit first with chipboard etc for size and thickness. Braze the lug slot and re-cut it or just leave a gap the right width in the sleeve to take the play out of the slot width. A careful metal worker could certainly do the welding job but the clean-up would be a lot of work and making the socket smaller would be less than fun with a welder and would probably end up being a shim/lining welded in anyway. Just my $.02 :grin:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Have you considered using Chamois cloth( deer hide) to line the inside of the socket so it won't rattle when mounted on your gun? A small strip of leather glued to the inside of the socket seems to be the easiest "fix" to this problem, particular when its only going to be used decoratively, and not expected to be used to cut, or stab anything.

You can wax the leather after gluing it in place, so it doesn't absorb water well. Then you don't have to worry too much about it swelling if you happen to be marching in rain. The wax on the leather will also help the socket slide over the barrel more easily.

 

[Brasilikilt]

Hey all

I have tried lining the inside of the socket with a few different things such as thin lead sheeting, leather and even cardboard......All of these were still too loose, and/or made it too tight and caused the bayonet to be a hassle to fix and remove.
While the bayonet will obviously not be used for combat, I can envision it being used to stab hay bales and such....You have this big musket with a long sharp thing on the end.....the natural urge is to stab something

Supposedly I am a good welder since I am certified. :wink:
I know 7018 or 7024 welding sticks would likely do the job well, but my welder is currently set up for MIG.

I like the idea of having the 2 bayonets and comparing the 2 side by side.With Christmas coming up, I might be able to swing this with the boss

If not, I still have the welder, and think that if I can pull it off, but end up putting a lot of work into it, at least I'll have a bayonet that fits and be a slightly better welder for it.

thanks for all the input

 

[paulvallandigham]

Several thin plies layered will work, where one thick piece of anything won't. you don't have to put a wide strip over the entire circumference of the socket, either. Think triangles. I have a Mute for my trombone. The hard material of the mute would damage the finish of my trombone's bell, if it weren't for the three strips of cork about 1/4" wide, and 4 inches long, glued to the sides of the mute.

Think outside the box. I know its hard, but we all do it, and most don't realize what they are doing, or when they are doing it. :thumbsup:

 

[Captain outwater]

The stand method of tightening Bess bayonets is to lightly tap the points of the slot. TAP LIGHTLY, check fit, repeat until it fits.
This works when there is a little bit of play, but may not work if it is seriously oversize.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Find a good welder, cut it and weld it. It's the only way other than lining the socket by soldering in some shim brass. Paul's idea would work for a while but will fail at the worst possible time (like the 4th or 5th time you fix your bayonet :shocked2: ) and then the problem is back and plaguing you for the rest of the event.

As far as taping on the bayonet as suggested by Captain Outwater above, that will work if it is a close fit but not so well if it is as large as you say. Cut it and weld it, not only will it work better, the socket won't look so huge. Stay in the box on this one, there is no way like the right way.

 

[JOHN F]

brasil brother , you sound like me you wanna stab something ....our ladies could probably start a supprt group.. :wink: i tought that cool pacific rain would keep one cooled off... seriously though i have the same set up and my doesnt seem to be that loose.. i think the indian muskets are much thinner walled than the ped version..for 30 bucks with the scabbard can be beat...

 

[Brasilikilt]

Once again thanks for all the suggestions :grin:

One point was brought up in regards to shimming the socket which echoes what I had been thinking....Shimming is easier to do, but is more likely to fall out,get chewed up or fail at the least opportune moment...I've already tried squeezing it in a vise, putting thin leather, lead and cardboard inside.....all of these materials seemed to have problems.

I am a certified welder/blacksmith and have a mig welder in the garage (which needs a spool of wire and a bottle of gas)

I do have a reenactor/blacksmith friend who would probably be able to help decide wather or not to go ahead with it, and probably assist in doing a better job of refitting.

And YES....While I am not going to do any real fighting, I have had the inclination to *** at various inanimate objects :youcrazy:

I will get in contact with my blacksmith friend to see if he would be willing to help figure this thing out.

thanks again everyone

Iain

 

[paulvallandigham]

Do you have anything of substance to offer her, or are you just that jerk in the back of the class who can only make fun of other students???

I studied and played trombone from age 8 to age 18, quitting the day I finished High school. I was a Very good player, and had Standing Room Only crowds for my last solo contest. I began studying French Horn the next week, and studied Horn at the Univ. of Illinois in the Fall of 1965, and continued through the Fall semester in 1966-67. I ended my horn career playing with the U of Ill. orchestra that last Fall. I chose to focus my college work on preparing to study Law.

I also studied piano all those years, and I learned to conduct the band in grammar school, and served as the conductor's substitute when he was called away from rehearsals in High school. I make no claims at being a conductor, altho I can do it, and I did it well.

I also studied Classical Guitar during my last two undergraduate years in college, and still own a very fine, hand made acoustic guitar. I make no claims at being a guitar player now, because I have not practiced in years. But I have not forgotten what I learned.

So, that makes me a musician. I made some knives as a Teen, and that makes me more knowledgeable about edged weapons than most people. I am an expert at sharpening knives, and still sharpen knives for friends.

Get over it. I don't know how you have spent your life, but I tend to pursue interests that fascinate me, and that is why I know so much about a wide variety of subjects. I also became an " accidental Scientist" because of my interest in tracking( see my avatar.) I spent parts of 5 years working with an Anthropology professor determining a relationship between how long your foot is, and how tall you grow to be, with separate linear equations for men and women. What I knew about statistics, and math before that work you could fit in the eye of a needle. What I know about either today may fill the bottom of a small thimble. But my co-author knew that stuff, and I know tracking- which he didn't. I also know admissibility of evidence in court cases- which he didn't--so that I gave a purpose for the research for both of us. We were a very good team, and I am now a published author in a very prestigious Peer- Review Scientific Journal.( The Journal of Forensic Science, Vol. 36, No. 4, July, 1991, pp. 1134-1151, " Height Estimation from Foot and Shoeprint Length", Giles and Vallandigham.

I still laugh at becoming an accidental scientist. Either laugh with me or find something more constructive to do with your life. :applause:

I a have written and published articles on hunting, anvils, knife making, tuning both percussion and flintlocks, off-hand and trick shooting, Controlling heavy recoil, and determining the Rate of Twist in a MLer, some of which are published here, as well as articles on tracking, and hunting, published in Muzzle Blasts. I regularly field questions from people around the globe on tracking issues.

My life time passion is tracking. All the rest of the areas of interests I have done for one reason or another. As for my law practice, I have argued cases before three different Appellate courts ( out of the five) here in Illinois, and have argued cases before the Illinois supreme court. I learned its better to keep your client out of court if possible, because even when you win, the judges can make it sound like you lost! I am considered an expert on Landlord-tenant law, and have been hired by other agencies to lecture on that area of law to housing managers, and lawyers. I am frequently consulted on Second Amendment Law issues by other lawyers, and have worked as a ballistic's expert in several cases. I am currently doing battle with ATFE trying to save my client's Fed. Firearms License. I represent two gun clubs locally as their general counsel.

Now, if that also bothers you, find something else to do with your life. But questioning my competence, or my knowledge is insulting, and defamatory. I will Not allow you to continue to do this here, or anywhere else, without consequences. If you have some problem with what I post, send me a PT. I will try to clear it up for you there. But your current practice has grown very old. I don't know you from Adam, but I am going to become very interested in finding out all about you if you don't stop.