Rehardening frizzens - one size fits all? Musings for metallurgy masterminds....

[SDSmlf]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the annealing of the arm of the frizzen after hardening the entire piece and not just the face, to relieve brittleness and prevent breaking or cracking in operation. Is that something anyone worries about?

Didn’t go into details, but once one gets serious about heat treating anything, proper tempering and annealing are obviously required. This discussion hasn’t gotten far enough into the weeds yet (only 5 pages of posts) to bring up process details, nor may it. At this point, doesn’t appear there is agreement on what is or is not heat treated. Once that is figured out……

Personally, have a small oven and just case harden any frizzens that need help, then draw back.

 

[FlinterNick]

1) They are super narrow. Can’t think of many frizzens that narrow.
2) Not all hacksaw blades are simple high carbon steels with predictable, simple heat treating and tempering requirements

Ok, but begs the question, why do so many claim how well hacksaw blades work? Personally, have a small oven and just case harden any frizzens that need help, then draw back. I know the Kasnet and Cherry Red creates no more that .001” to .002” case hardening if their instructions are followed, so almost useless for frizzens in my opinion, unless frizzen steel is hardenable. Curious why so many claim low temp soldering to a frizzen of hacksaw blades are an answer?

If I were to use a hacksaw blade, I would use one of the ‘all hard molybdenum’ industrial ones that I have a drawer full of. Figure I would grind to shape and use a low temp high strength silver solder to attach. No post solder heat treat required. But I have to admit, I haven’t tried it, but it is on my low priority to do list. Believe they are wide and hard enough. At least they cut most any soft steel, including 4140 pre hardened (RC 30) without issue. Recently retired, so no current access to hardness tester to confirm actual hardness.
View attachment 345570

I don’t use hacksaw blades for a few reasons

1. 1070-1095 high carbon steel Shim is readily available to purchase pretty cheap in a normalized state. Why bother with a hacksaw blade.

2.as rich said Hacksaw blades are often made of bimetal steels, not all are high carbon. Some are stainless, carbide, tungsten, not all are 15n20 or 80crv2 or 1095. It’s always a good practice knowing what you’re working with.

3. Hack saw blades often need to be retreated, and reconditioned to fit your needs.

 

[rich pierce]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the annealing of the arm of the frizzen after hardening the entire piece and not just the face, to relieve brittleness and prevent breaking or cracking in operation. Is that something anyone worries about?

Toe, yes, to purple color for me.

 

[FlinterNick]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the annealing of the arm of the frizzen after hardening the entire piece and not just the face, to relieve brittleness and prevent breaking or cracking in operation. Is that something anyone worries about?

I temper the entire frizzen at 380 until it is a light straw color. Then I temper the foot and pan blue. You can probably just temper the pan and foot blue. / violet, with not much chances of the frizzen breaking. Only time ive had to repair frizzens that break is when people drop them on the lock side, these were also not frizzens I’ve tempered.

 

[Relic shooter]

Thanks to 'all' for the great frizzen hardening tips !

I'm building a flintlock Kentucky style pistol from parts I acquired in 1972 while employed in the ML business..
Can't say for sure but I think the unfinished & unhardened lock components are Hamm ?
Lock was missing the fly so I formed, fitted & hardened one from a low carbon 'carpenters nail'.
*Amazing how airborn these tiny parts can be, two went airborne & disappeared during the fitting process.
Note; If new to this process, all parts need to be fitted & polished prior to hardening..

METHOD I USED TO HARDEN FRIZZEN;
Have no idea what the frizzen metal is.
I clamped pan & toe area of the frizzen in wide jaws of a large set of vice grips against base of the frizzen
face/joint to draw heat away & carefully applied 'concentrated heat' to cherry red from underside of the frizzen's face &
dipped just the face-only in Cherry Red case hardening compound before quenching in canola oil & did not temper.
*All working component surfaces including the plate were case hardened & tempered in oven @ 375 for 45 minutes.
*Screws are fire blued.
Bottom line, finished lock is sparky !

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

I just replace my frizzens.
That's the quickest & easiest way to get back shooting.

 

[Rudyard]

I use a witches brew of bone, leather ,hair ,wool ,chared leather & cook the poop out of it all .Then with suitable incantaction to the gods Tip the whole long cooked mess into a bucket of cold water .BANG !! hopefully recover the total parts in a prosess a bit like panning for gold coulers . clean up them temper back a bit . Incicentaly those wide thick industrial hack saw blades are great if gripping three together they clean out ram rod channels nicely . You only need the unworn out ends
Rudyard's two pennorth

 

[Coinneach]

Thanks to 'all' for the great frizzen hardening tips !

I'm building a flintlock Kentucky style pistol from parts I acquired in 1972 while employed in the ML business..
Can't say for sure but I think the unfinished & unhardened lock components are Hamm ?
Lock was missing the fly so I formed, fitted & hardened one from a low carbon 'carpenters nail'.
*Amazing how airborn these tiny parts can be, two went airborne & disappeared during the fitting process.
Note; If new to this process, all parts need to be fitted & polished prior to hardening..

METHOD I USED TO HARDEN FRIZZEN;
Have no idea what the frizzen metal is.
I clamped pan & toe area of the frizzen in wide jaws of a large set of vice grips against base of the frizzen
face/joint to draw heat away & carefully applied 'concentrated heat' to cherry red from underside of the frizzen's face &
dipped just the face-only in Cherry Red case hardening compound before quenching in canola oil & did not temper.
*All working component surfaces including the plate were case hardened & tempered in oven @ 375 for 45 minutes.
*Screws are fire blued.
Bottom line, finished lock is sparky !

Thank you sir, noted.

 

[Relic shooter]

This hardening subject has shown us many ways to refresh a frizzen

 

[RAEDWALD]

A lesson in understanding case hardening: