Rehardening my frizzen

[TheTyler7011]

Hello all, I have a genuine India pattern Brown Bess I will be parting with. I did a lot of work to the lock and now it functions great. Only problem is it doesn’t spark. At all. I need help finding the culprit.

My flint is sharp and my springs are good. In my opinion it has to either be the angle
of the flint (not properly hitting the frizzen) or the frizzen face needs to be tampered with. It’s probably a little of both. The face feels very smooth with my finger. Is that how it’s supposed to be? My repro has a much rougher feel and it works great.

I have a picture of the musket frizzen face as well as flint position at full and half cock. Thanks for your input!

I will be selling this and I wouldn’t feel right advertising the lock as functioning if it puts off zero sparks.

This might be easy to people who are used to tuning locks, but I am unfamiliar.


Tyler

 

[Heelerau]

Mate that flint is not sharp, should have a razor like edge across the width of the pan. Try a new sharp flint before going the hardening route. I am looking at the flint in your photos and am not the least surprised you are not getting sparks

 

[Capn'D]

Very dull flint for sure! That's the type I keep in an original to make sure they look good but can't be sparked by someone even if they happen to get past my observation.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Tyler,



Basic musket flint wrap of lead...


Two different ways of wrapping with leather....second example the jaw screw goes through both holes...




LD

 

[Eric Krewson]

That is a terrible flint, I would put a sharp flint in the jaws bevel down for the best contact with the frizzen.

 

[sawyer04]

Flint is dull, but looks like it is hitting the frizzen high. Replace flint with a sharp one, flint should hit frizzen about half way ending it's stroke down and the edge of the flint should be in line with the touch hole. Sometimes installing the flint with sharp edge down. As far as I am concerned it doesn't matter which bevel is up or down, as long as it strikes the frizzen more towards the middle and is in line with touch hole at a fired position.
As far as lead for flint wrap: leather lets the flint have just a bit of looseness. lead holds tight and gives the flint more of a fighting chance to spark.

 

[sportster73hp]

Is that a parts kit from ima ? Was curious about condition of the metal parts and if it is safe to fire.
I too would start with a different flint. Usually a quick and cheap fix

 

[TheTyler7011]

Thank you for the comments guys. I think when I said the flint was sharp, The bottom edge is very sharp, enough to cut my finger....but it’s not sloped enough for any of it to chip off.

I will get a new flint. And if it needs to hit midway on the face, it appears I’ll need to get a much smaller one as well.

 

[TheTyler7011]

Tyler,

View attachment 26629

Basic musket flint wrap of lead...
View attachment 26630

Two different ways of wrapping with leather....second example the jaw screw goes through both holes...
View attachment 26631
View attachment 26632
View attachment 26633

LD

Loyalist, thank you for your comment. You never fail to help with any of my questions.

Out of curiosity, what is the reasoning for the flint needing to tough the screw? Is it so the flint can get deep enough for the edge to hit midway on the frizzen? Or is it to hold it in place so it doesn’t microscopically move around the leather?

I wasn’t aware the British used lead and not leather. What about charleville’s? Lead as well?

 

[TheTyler7011]

Is that a parts kit from ima ? Was curious about condition of the metal parts and if it is safe to fire.
I too would start with a different flint. Usually a quick and cheap fix

No, it’s not a parts kit. The frizzen spring screw is a replacement which I did myself.

Original screw isn’t strong enough to hold the spring in place under operation.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Thank you for the comments guys. I think when I said the flint was sharp, The bottom edge is very sharp, enough to cut my finger....but it’s not sloped enough for any of it to chip off.

I will get a new flint. And if it needs to hit midway on the face, it appears I’ll need to get a much smaller one as well.

The Tyler,
The bottom may be sharp, but notice the contact point. The flint is contacting the frizzen with a dull top edge. The flint needs to scrape off metal for a good spark. Try a new flint and then see where you are.
Flintlocklar

 

[Carbon 6]

That flint looks so dull I don't think i could even knap it back to sharp. looks like the end broke clean off.

 

[TheTyler7011]

That flint looks so dull I don't think i could even knap it back to sharp. looks like the end broke clean off.

well, if what people are telling me are true (the flint needing to hit midway), I will have to knap the flint much smaller. So I don’t really need a new one. I have a grinding wheel.

 

[Zonie]

Don't worry too much about where the flint will hit the frizzen.
The important part is, the flint must have a razor sharp edge at the place where the flint contacts the frizzen.

The whole idea is, the sharp edge on the flint shaves off tiny pieces of the face of the frizzen. This generates enough heat to cause the carbon in the tiny pieces of steel to catch fire creating the spark.
If the flint happens to hit high on the frizzen it might work just fine. Most peoples flints hit lower on the frizzen face but if hitting high does make a lot of sparks, your flintlock should work.

 

[rich pierce]

I still don’t know if the frizzen is hard enough

 

[Carbon 6]

I still don’t know if the frizzen is hard enough

I can't tell how hard it is by looking at a picture.

 

[Artificer]

well, if what people are telling me are true (the flint needing to hit midway), I will have to knap the flint much smaller. So I don’t really need a new one. I have a grinding wheel.

Tyler,

When I was the Artificer (Armorer) of the Major's Company of the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch; I found many of our members did not know much about selecting flints that fit their Repro Brown Bess locks correctly for the best sparking, because they had never fired their Bess's in competition like I had. So they OFTEN chose flints that were too large for their locks and especially with the different thicknesses of leather or lead flint wraps.

I kept a supply of different size English Flints and I would check their locks with different thicknesses of leather or lead wrappers and different sizes of flints to find what sparked best. For example, I was very surprised the first time I found the Miroku Bess's sparked the best with a thick leather wrap and believe it or not, a 7/8" flint. So it may behoove you to buy a couple of each size of flint from that to as big as the flint you are now using and see what your lock prefers.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/141/1/FLINT-ENG-7

Gus

 

[Britsmoothy]

I'm different, my flints are smashed by myself of a chunk of flint. They are all sizes. I only hunt with it and ain't in no competition.
Despite their odd sizes and shapes one thing has to remain constant, they must be sharp, the op's is as blunt as a blunt end of a frogs blunt end!

 

[TheTyler7011]

Tyler,

When I was the Artificer (Armorer) of the Major's Company of the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch; I found many of our members did not know much about selecting flints that fit their Repro Brown Bess locks correctly for the best sparking, because they had never fired their Bess's in competition like I had. So they OFTEN chose flints that were too large for their locks and especially with the different thicknesses of leather or lead flint wraps.

I kept a supply of different size English Flints and I would check their locks with different thicknesses of leather or lead wrappers and different sizes of flints to find what sparked best. For example, I was very surprised the first time I found the Miroku Bess's sparked the best with a thick leather wrap and believe it or not, a 7/8" flint. So it may behoove you to buy a couple of each size of flint from that to as big as the flint you are now using and see what your lock prefers.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/141/1/FLINT-ENG-7

Gus

That’s exactly what I was planning on doing. Thx

 

[Grenadier1758]

There is a relatively simple test to perform on the frizzen as an investigation into the hardness of the frizzen. Use a small file and try to file the face of the frizzen. On a properly hardened frizzen, the file will skate across the face of the frizzen and not cut. If the file cuts into the frizzen, it is soft.

By the way, you do need a sharp flint to scrape steel shards from the frizzen at high temperature sparks to ignite the powder in the pan. Yes, I know you are getting a new sharp flint.