Reliability

[Glenfilthie]

Hey fellers, I am not a BP pistoleer, but I have been reading about some favourite cops and robbers of the old west and I hear that often the caps on the revolvers fell off, or tied up the gun once they were fired and the cap fell into the pistol's workings.

Does this happen often to you guys when you're out and about on the BP trail? Do the caps fall off by accident often?

Not that I care, I am still going to buy one when finances permit. :grin:

 

[napolean]

Yes, caps can sometimes come off. Usually after the chamber has been fired. The fired cap can fall into the gap in the frame behind the cylinder and if it lands just right can interupt the hammer falling on the next shot. but in years of shooting it has only happened to me a few times. More often the spent cap falls outside of the gun and gets between my palm and the grip. Man those things are hot.
Jon

 

[Zonie]

On a single shot pistol caps stay put if they fit the nipple.

Revolvers are a different breed though.
Occasionally a cap that seems to fit the nipple will fall off, usually due to recoil.
It's a good idea to glance at the remaining caps on the unfired chambers because if one does fall off it leaves a open vent directly to the powder.

When any cap and ball gun is fired there is a lot of flame that blows out thru the nipple hole.
That flame can be deflected off of the hammer and recoil shield into a neighboring chambers area and if the cap has fallen off of that chamber the flame can ignite that chamber too.
This is sometimes called a chain fire.

As for fired caps jamming up the works this is a problem that Colt addressed by milling a curved relief into the recoil shield on the right side of the hammer.
That is supposed to allow the cap fragments to fall out without locking up the gun.

Remingtons solution to this was a bit different.
Their guns have a fairly large space between the top of the nipple and the recoil shield.
Also, the recoil shield (or rear of the frame in Remingtons case) is much narrower than the Colt so the fragments don't have far to travel before they fall free.
The Whitney and the Rogers & Spencer, both being closed framed guns use the wide gap and narrow frame method similar to the Remington.

Folks who shoot any of these cap and ball revolvers a lot have learned that by rolling the pistol to the right a bit helps the cap fragments fall free of the action rather than falling back under the hammer and the frame.

 

[biliff]

CAS shooters have been dealing with this for a long time. Can't shoot fast if your guns are jamming all the time.

If your caps fit your nipples properly they shouldn't fall off even under recoil. Sometimes you have to find the right combination of nipple and cap for a good fit. There are a number of possible variations. Treso nipples and CCI #11's seem to work best for me.

As others have said, sometimes a fired cap will come off the nipple and possibly tie things up. Remington worked around it with a solid frame and narrow hammer face that prevented the cap fragments from being carried back into the action.

The Manhattan conversion for Colts, essentially modified a Colt frame and hammer to the Remington pattern.

Like Zonie said, just learning to roll your wrist to the right while cocking will tend to drop the fragments out of the frame. Pointing the gun straight up and cocking will do the same thing but isn't generally allowed on most ranges.

Filling the small slot in the Colt's hammer with JB weld also seems to help as this seems to be the main point where the fragments stick to the hammer and subsequently get pulled off the nipple during cocking. New trick a CAS friend came up with about a year ago. Seems to be working pretty well so far. Not a problem as nobody rests the hammer between cylinders so the slot isn't needed.

 

[Poor Private]

If you watch alot of the old westerns, pre 1940 you will see alot of the old timers tip up the barrel of thier revolvers into the sky between shots. I was told that this was an old habit of firing the cap and ballers, that tipping them up helped the fired caps to fall free from the cylinder when the hammer was pulled back for the next shot.

 

[Dphar]

Hey fellers, I am not a BP pistoleer, but I have been reading about some favourite cops and robbers of the old west and I hear that often the caps on the revolvers fell off, or tied up the gun once they were fired and the cap fell into the pistol's workings.

Does this happen often to you guys when you're out and about on the BP trail? Do the caps fall off by accident often?

Not that I care, I am still going to buy one when finances permit. :grin:

This is why the caps must fit the nipple tight.
As a side note.
In the old westerns of the 1920s-30s you will see people doing a rather strange arm movement when cocking an SA revolver.
This, I have read, was how the Colt C&B was used by some so as to throw the *spent* cap from the revolver. Watching the movement it appears this is what they are doing.
In the 20s and 30s and there were a lot of out of work/looking for something better cowboys from the western states who moved to California and went to work as extras. They usually had the outfit etc and knew how to ride and "cowboy" without having a 2 week training course. William S. Hart, for example, spent a lot of time with "real cowboys" so his portrayal was accurate.

It is *usually* the spent cap that causes problems.
These can tie up the gun. But with properly fitting caps its not terribly common.
They can fall into the hammer cut of the frame as the revolver is cocked, the worst scenario, and it may take several seconds to clear if it does.
So not the C&B revolver is not as reliable as the cartridge revolver. Nor are the enclosed frame guns much better I am told.
Bill Hickok used to shoot his Navy's every morning. Shoot one, clean then load then shoot/clean/load the second.
I used to shoot mine 2-3 times a week when I carried a 1860 Army a lot under my coat.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

New trick a CAS friend came up with about a year ago. Seems to be working pretty well so far. Not a problem as nobody rests the hammer between cylinders so the slot isn't needed.

I believe this is a decent fix.

I never trusted the pins to keep a revolver between cylinders. They don't work very well and if carried thrust in the belt they will always move to the cap in my experience.
There is only one model, a Colt design, that can be carried with all 6 loaded but folks will have to figure that out for themselves I ain't gonna spill the beans and have someone blame me if it don't work for them.

None of the others regardless of design are remotely safe unless one chamber is left empty

Dan

 

[almrl]

In the 20s and 30s and there were a lot of out of work/looking for something better cowboys from the western states who moved to California and went to work as extras.

Including Wyatt Earp. Earp died in January 1929 in Los Angeles. So many of these guys lived on Gower St. in Hollywood that it was known as "Gower Gulch."

Old Coot