Reliable first shot in the field

[ballandcap]

Hopefully this is not too redundant of a question. I have shot Flintlocks for a short time now but can get them to fire pretty reliably at this point. I am going Javelina hunting with my Flinter this weekend and need it to fire the first time, with no doubts.

It has failed to go off the first time a couple of times at the range. I assume I may have not cleaned all of the oil out. I have had to clear the charge with a discharger or try to put a bunch of 4F through the touch hole to get it to fire.

What are the best precautions to take and what is the most reliable method to preloading? I was thinking maybe cleaning it well with a dry patch, then running some de-natured alchohal down the tube? Will this start the rusting process and make it worse?

What works best for you?

 

[hanshi]

What flintlock do you have? That would go a long way in helping find a solution if we had some details. An absolutely dry bore and flame channel are necessary, as you know, but knowing which rifle, type flint, etc. will help a lot.

 

[ballandcap]

Hmmm, didin't even think about supplying that info. It is a custom with a Deluxe Siler lock, Tom Fuller English knapped flint, White lightning liner I believe, and a 42" G.M. Barell 1/70 twist I think. Thank you.

 

[longcruise]

If the primer charge is going off and the rifle is not, then it is dirt or more likely oil in the breech end of the gun. Especialy if it is pretty much confined to the first attempt.

Before you load, plug your flashole, pour a bit (maybe an oz) of denatured alcohol down the bore, plug the end of the bore with your thumb and slosh it back and forth, dump it and then unplug the flashhole and pump a lot of air throu it to blow out the rest of the alcohol. It still needs to sit and evaporate a bit. In fact, if you do that the night before it is all the better.

After you clean it and put bore protectant in it, store it muzzle down. Also, maybe rethink what you are using for a bore protectant.

 

[peter hawbaker]

I always fire a fouling shot through my flinters before hunting with them.

 

[Semisane]

I don't fire a fouling shot before a hunt. I hunt on a clean, dry bore with all of my muzzle loaders, and the gun stays loaded until I fire at an animal. Killed a nice 8-point on Nov. 20th. with a .54 Great Plains flinter that was loaded on Nov. 18th. I make sure the bore is clean and dry before loading - that means an alcohol patch down the bore and an alcohol patch in the patent breech, followed by dry patches. I've never had a first shot fail to fire.

 

[Trench]

All in all, the first shot out of a flinter should be the most reliable, and the one you have the most confidence in. You have a GM barrel, so there is no patent breech to deal with. This should be easy. I agree, consider what you are using as a rust preventative. It may be too hard to get it out of the barrel and it's contaminating your charge. You're on the right track with the alcohol. I like to run a loose, dry patch down first and then follow up with a soaking wet 91% alcohol patch when I want a barrel that's clear of all lube. Then, dry that sucker out by letting it sit or just ran patches down it. That should do it. If it's still flashing in the pan, you can move on to something else...like the touch hole to cure the problem.

 

[smoothy]

Sounds like you have some quality components. Follow the advice above and clean/dry the barrel out and make sure that touch hole is clear.

After all that, there are different schools of thought on filling the flash pan and location of the touch hole. Likely, you won't be moving your touch hole but it would be nice to know if its centerline matched the top of the pan or if its above the pan.

I don't have a touch hole liner. Just a 1/16 inch hole through a thick barrel wall (1" flats, 54 cal). I fill my pan up when hunting and tap the powder against the hole. The dreaded fuse with a long lock time. Some like using a little flash powder and depend on sparks getting to the hole for a fast lock time. But that is what works for me, haven't had a misfire since I don't know when. 4 deer the last 4 years. Study up on this issue and see what works for you.

 

[Toomuch_36]

In a hunting situation as Trench stated "your first shot should be the most reliable one".
First is basic: Start with a clean dry barrel.
Next put vent pick in the touch hole and leave there while loading (personal preference), some like to load and then pick the vent afterwards, either will work well.
Make sure flint is tight and sharp, if in doubt replace it with a fresh one.
When priming do not fill pan completely , a small amount (about 1/3 to 1/2 full) and tapped away from the barrel will speed ignition timing. If weather is somewhat inclement you might consider using a courser powder for your prime as 4F will draw moisture quite quickly (for hunting I like to use 3F for both charge and prime).
I believe this should get you a good clean first shot.

The rest is up to you. :hmm: :thumbsup:

Toomuch
........
Shoot Flint

 

[Dphar]

Hopefully this is not too redundant of a question. I have shot Flintlocks for a short time now but can get them to fire pretty reliably at this point. I am going Javelina hunting with my Flinter this weekend and need it to fire the first time, with no doubts.

It has failed to go off the first time a couple of times at the range. I assume I may have not cleaned all of the oil out. I have had to clear the charge with a discharger or try to put a bunch of 4F through the touch hole to get it to fire.

What are the best precautions to take and what is the most reliable method to preloading? I was thinking maybe cleaning it well with a dry patch, then running some de-natured alchohal down the tube? Will this start the rusting process and make it worse?

What works best for you?

Wipe the oil out with a dry patch or two.
Plug the vent with a toothpick.
Pour in 1-2 ounces of denatured alcohol. With your thumb over the muzzle slosh it end to end in the bore.
Dump, wipe one dry patch, pull the vent plug and wipe completely dry. Maybe a pipe cleaner in and out of the vent a time or two.

Use FFFF in the pan and put in just as much as you can without packing the powder down when closing the frizzen. With a good lock and sharp flint it should give no problems.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

In a hunting situation as Trench stated "your first shot should be the most reliable one".
First is basic: Start with a clean dry barrel.
Next put vent pick in the touch hole and leave there while loading (personal preference), some like to load and then pick the vent afterwards, either will work well.
Make sure flint is tight and sharp, if in doubt replace it with a fresh one.
When priming do not fill pan completely , a small amount (about 1/3 to 1/2 full) and tapped away from the barrel will speed ignition timing. If weather is somewhat inclement you might consider using a courser powder for your prime as 4F will draw moisture quite quickly (for hunting I like to use 3F for both charge and prime).
I believe this should get you a good clean first shot.

The rest is up to you. :hmm: :thumbsup:

Toomuch
........
Shoot Flint

See http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/part-5-timing-powder-locations-in-pan.php

 

[Dphar]

Also.
Make sure the pan and frizzen have NO fouling. Good BP draws little moisture from the air but fouling sucks it up like a sponge and will then wet the priming.
I live in the west and use FFFF exclusively with no problems.
If in doubt REPRIME the lock. It worked in the past and will work today.

Dan

 

[paulvallandigham]

Flush with isopropyl alcohol to remove ALL oil in the bore, particularly the breech if the gun is being " Stored" standing up on its buttstock. :idunno:

To Prevent rust to begin, use a very LIGHTLY OILED cleaning patch to put a film of oil on the bore. Now, just before you Load the gun with powder, Run a couple of dry cleaning patches down the barrel and out again.

Once you load the powder, and then the PRB, you can then lube the barrel with a greased cleaning patch to prevent condensation moisture from rusting the bore ahead of the PRB. In hot, humid climates, or weather conditions, where a gun might remain loaded for a long day or more, and have to tolerate changes in temperature and relative humidity that cover a wide range, lubing the bore in front of the PRB is a good idea. I use the same "Lube" that I use in the Patch around the ball. That way, the lube " feeds" the patch as the PRB is racing out the barrel, and keeps the following fouling soft as a bonus. Softer, actually, than can be done with just a lubed Patch around the ball for most caliber guns.

Take the time to check the POI for your gun if you change your loading system. I have recorded a small increase in velocity( 20 fps) in my .50 cal. rifle with the greased bore, but I did not have a change in my POI doing this.

Drying that barrel well, with alcohol, and dry patches, before loading the first powder charge should END your ignition problems with the first shot.

As has already been suggested, I make a habit of cleaning my rifle out the day/night before it goes shooting, as I put my gear together to go to the range, or field with it.

Over the years, I have become more careful in how much oil I " slop " on the patches and put in the barrel. I am using Young Country 101 Lube on my patches( a predecessor to Wonderlube, or Bore Butter), and I use it in my bore to prevent rusting. I use Ballistol for longer storage.

The 101 lube is made with wax and oil mixed, and I find the wax helps to hold the oil on the metal better than if I use any oil alone, serving my need to prevent rusting when hunting.

I learned this lesson way back in the early 1980s, on my first boar hunt over Labor Day weekend in Eastern Tennessee, where it rained and misted, and fogged, and seemed to rain Up off the ground when it wasn't dropping down on my head. The low temperatures were only in the high 60s, at night, and the day time temperatures would reach up into the 90s. Wearing light clothing, and a poncho, it was still next to impossible to keep dry.

 

[jbtusa]

I fire a "squib." That is, after running a dry patch down the bore, I dump down about 5 grains of powder, no ball, and fire it off to burn the oil out of the breech. Then I run a pipe cleaner through the touch hole and clean the fouling off of the pan and frizzen. I only fire a squib in camp one time not to scare the game, after that, no gunfire around camp, period!

 

[hanshi]

I disagree with firing a pan of powder prior to the hunt. It does nothing except dirty the lock; no pressure goes into the bore. You might check your vent liner opening; it should be 1/16" at least. Drill it out to 1/16" if it is not. If you dry patch out the bore before going out, it should work fine. I just run a few down the bore the night before and that's all. I also put a fair amount of oil in after cleaning. Never had any problems.

 

[ballandcap]

Great advice and a ton of good tips guys! Thank you. I really got to thinking about my shots that have not gone off and I think more of them had been while I was shooting and just after cleaning in between some shots, probably liquid in the vent preventing the pan lighting the barrel powder. I do pick after each shot and after I load. It seemed like when I used too much cleaner is when it wouldn't go off. I have recently got a flat breech scraper and now make sure it is clean so it won't retain moisture there. I also currently store my rifle on a gun rack in the horizontal position.

I don't think I'll fire a squib shot in the field due to the fouling issue,plus it may be loaded for a few days. I'll do as suggested and either flush barrell with alchohal the night before or clean with an alchohal patch, make sure it's dry and vent is clear and dry. Run a light oil patch down, then a few more dry patches. Load gun as usual and then run a lubed patch down in front of the ball since it may be loaded for a few days..... well hopelly I won't have to wait more than the first morning :wink:

I do use 4F at the Range, once in a while some 7F. I'd planned on using 3F in the field due to the moisture factor as was stated and what I have read. Plus it may rain, hopefully just the day before. Thanks again all and I can everybody's advice and combine it to suit my needs.

 

[jbtusa]

I forgot to mention that my barrel has a patent breech so it is impossible to run a dry patch all the way down to clean the flash channel. The oil in the patent breech is the crux of my problem. As for the fouling which a "squib" shot causes, I always pull the ball after the first day out and clean so that no rust starts to form.

 

[nkbj]

Just curious...does anyone pull the hole liner and add a smidgen to assure a dry and clean bit of powder just inside?
That's what you do when you just cleaned it and then get the dreaded no-boom. Wondered if maybe anyone does that to put a belt on their suspenders.

 

[Vaino]

"50% Reliabilty" was a recent topic and judging from all the "extra precautions" mentioned in this post for reliable ignition of a first shot, what do you think a soldier in Napoleon's army did? Alcohol, "flashpanning", toothpicks in the vent and some other "insurances"?. Just curious....Fred

 

[Zoar]

No. I have never pulled the hole liner and added a smudgeon of powder. I cannot even imagine doing so.

This thread has shown (in my opinion) that failure of that first shot is generally due to too much OIL or WATER... yeah it could be another reason but usually that is a newbie issue and hopefully we will not beat the dead horse of newbie issues. So, if too much oil or water arethe most common causes for the failure of the first shot to go boom, then it is clear to me: Clean the gun of the oil, then load it like you know how to load it and keep the Pan Powder DRY---and you should be okay in nearly all hunting scenarios with a flintlock.