Remington New Model Army -uberti

[mec]

These came about from the Beals patent that was issued just as Colts Patent extention played out. Remington acquired the rights in 1858 and it appears that the first army models went into production in 1860. A couple of changes brought about the New Model Army in 1863. By then, it had prominent safety notches between the chambers and the loading lever was in its final form. The Union Army bought something over 100,000 of them- or about half as many Remingtons as Colt 1860 Armys. The Remington percussion revolver stayed in production until 1875 when it was replaced by a cartridge arm of the same general profile.

Famous users include Buffalo Bill, Wyatt Earp(?) and Jesse James.

The Remington, with its closed frame and closer tollerances is said to gum up with powder fouling faster than the colts.

This does not present a problem if the shooter is able to clean the cylinder ratchet and clean and lubricate the base pin frequently between reloadings.

Cap fragments do not fall through the hammer cut in the frame as is often the case with Colts, and depend upon free cycling past the frame and into the caping cut. There is a generous amount of space between the nipples/rear of cylinder and the frame

and holding the revolver at a downward angle, tilted to the right while cocking promotes very reliable functioning.

This revolver is a 2004 Uberti. Unlike earlier revolvers of the type, the front sight arrives overly-tall and can be filed down to raise point of impact. It is also drift adjustable for windage. The revolver has a 3.5 pound trigger pull and the action is well timed and very smooth.

Goex fffg loads frequently average out in the mid 800 fps range with ball and in the high 900 fps range with ball and pyrodex p. This revolver is reasonably accurate with the Lee 200 grain conical bullets.

This revolver handles very well, It is muzzle heavy enough to contribute to steadiness. the grip shape and overall feel is different than, but not inferior to the Colt. The sights are visible in a variety of lighting conditions and are much easier to get into proper register than the Colt set-up.

 

[Birdwatcher]

Well I can vouch for the propensity of Remingtons to foul. My first handgun was a Uberti 1858, front sight already filed down by the previous owner. I ended up eventually having to replace the cylinder after the back of it got chewed up by the part that rotates it (hand? pawl??), this caused by my forcing the action after it became stiff from fouling during long days at the range.

It is my understanding that the pin on which the cylinder revolves on contemporary Colts has broad spiral grooves running down it for that very reason, the grooves providing a location for accumulated fouling.

I can also vouch for the quality of Ubertis, fifteen years back I passed that Uberti on to a nephew who then cowboyed on a Dude ranch in New Mexico. In addition to firing it into the air when providing "authentic" welcomes to new guests, it became his preferred sidearm for periodic forays into the National Forest. Last I heard he still uses it.

On the other hand I currently own a Pietta Remington bought used for a song. The build quality on this gun doesn't appear to be close to that of the Uberti I had, in particular the safety notches on the cylinder are too narrow to admit the hammer, a small but telling detail.

Birdwatcher

 

[Gatofeo]

Good post, Mec. I'm sure many will find it useful.
I have an Uberti-made Remington too. Bought it about three years ago. As you say, it came with a drift adjustable, unusually tall front sight.
I've filed the sight down, a lick at at time, to bring it to a 6 o'clock hold on a bullseye at 25 yards. It's a sweet shooter.
I had an interesting, unexplainable incident with this revolver when I first fired it.
I was in such a hurry to shoot it, that I didn't give it my suggested treatment of running a patch with JB Bore Compound or Iosso Bore Cleaner up and down the bore a bit. Both are very mildly abrasive creams that will smooth the bore somewhat.
Anyway, I didn't do this. Instead, when I first got it, I ran a brass brush through the bore, wet with lighter fluid. I figured this would remove any of the factory preservative in the bore.
Off to the range I went ...
I put a target in the center of a 4X4-FOOT piece of new plywood, and shot from a benchrest. As I recall, I used 30 grains of FFFG, with a greased felt wad and .454 inch ball.
My first shot hit the base of the plywood, spewing dirt all over the target.
Sheesh ... must have flinched or something.
The next shot was about a foot higher.
The third shot, as I recall, hit high to the left! Then another hit low to the right!
"Wottinell is going on?" I muttered.
I knew I hadn't flinched and I was firing from a pistol rest. Sheesh.
The last ball hit about 10 inches to the side of the target. Left or right, I can't recall.
So then I reloaded the blamed thing, cursing Uberti.
The next six shots started to settle down.
By the third cylinderful, the balls were going into a 4" circle, about 18 inches below the target.
I'm still stumped what accounts for all the wild shots. I guess the bore just needed to get broken in. It was bone dry when I started.
Anyway, I've never had any of my cap and ball pistols start off with such a wild string.
Today, that Remington will often put six balls into a 3 inch circle, and sometimes 2 inches, at 25 yards from a benchrest.
Go figure.

 

[mec]

amazing. I've had some kind of random first shots but nothing like that. I noticed an earlier post about getting the spring back in these things. What I found fairly easy was positioning the top of the spring under the hammer strut area as you said and then inserting an object- 8mm mauser case was handy about half way down between the frame front and the spring. Then I could put the base of the spring down with my thumb until it fit into the grip frame slot. This works for me as I am kind of clumsey with pliers - particularly needlenosed ones.

The only other funny thing I can think of about taking thes appart is the need to push the hammer downward in the frame and remove the hand screw and hand before the hammer will come out.

Also noticed that the cylinder gets easier to re-install after the revolver has worn in a bit. Early, I was having fits shoving the cylinder too far into the frame and having to decock from half cock to push it on out the left side. Now it goes in and out very easily and must have inspired some real high-tech snobbery among the Victorians.

I shot a 1.4" 50 foot fffg and ball group with mine so it sounds as if our results are comparable. Had to make sure I cleaned the barrel before it would do that well though. My 1960 army seems to be just a bit more accurate from the bench but both are pretty satisfactory.

 

[JohnW]

Mec that's fine shooting. I'm new to cap n ball bought a Euroarms Remington .44 early November, and keeping practicing 200 rounds so far and I am lucky if I get 3inch groups at 25m.
Using 24g 777, .454 balls (HORNABY,) lubed wads. Tried .451 but found these not tight enough. A lot of the guys in my club use Petroleum Jelly instead of wads thinking of trying this. The favoured gun in my club is the Ruger version of the Remington. I considered the Ruger but opted for the more purist version by Euroarms. I have to say very impressed with the trigger of the Euroarms Remington. The general finish is also pretty good slightly better I thought than the Pietta. The Uberti according to UK suppliers isn't available here.

 

[mec]

That's kind of bad not being able to get Uberti. It would be worth your suppliers time to investigate getting their products. Three inches at 25m is dang good. I wonder who manufactures the Euroarms if not Pietta?

Over here, we have several companies that import Uberti and keep all the spare springs and parts that might be needed. This is a fairly new thing. If you want Pietta parts, there is one firm that keeps or tries to keep them on hand.

I've been wanting somebody from the UK to tell me if they could get parts or customer service for the Piettas and particularly the LeMat revolver. those have been imported here since about 1985 and nobody keeps comprehensive spare parts on this side of the Atlantic. One company successfully back-ordered a good supply for me but a lot of shooters report absolutely no luck in getting them from the Pietta company.

a 24 grain measure of H777 (measure calibrated for fffg) gave me the same performance as 30 grains of Pyrodex P. Heavier charges of h777 become erratic in my guns. I like it in single shots and find it very easy to clean up.

ruger's are extremely trouble free and have an advantage in matches and such. I shot an old CVA remington in a match about 20 years ago and a guy with a Ruger with a 1.5lb trigger pull cleaned my clock.

 

Not sure who made it but I owned a Dixie '58 about 25 years ago. They may have been subcontracting from the Japanese or it may have been an early Italian gun - I don't know. At any rate, it was not well finished but had a good trigger and was pretty accurate from 25 yds or so. I always covered the balls with commercial "Spit-Patch" so the whole pistol was pretty greasy after a few shots. I used this on the cylinder pin and could get several cylinders loaded without it jamming. If you have time between loads, it only takes a second to flop the cylinder out and wipe it with a rag.

 

[JohnW]

For parts etc you could try HENRY KRANK www.henrykrank.com
I didn't think I was doing very well with my groups. The guy's in my club are getting 1 inch groups. They are using those pesky RUGERS though. Yearly comp starts after Xmas so I've been practicing as much as possible. Le page single shot very popular and darn accurate also used. How do you rate the UBERTI 1851 .36 Navy? Gun shop I deal with has a secondhand one, owner assures me its in first class order and he's asking 95 pounds for it. New they retail for 169 pounds, I can probably get him to throw in some balls, caps and a powder nozzle.

 

[mec]

The Ubertis from the last couple of years are better than any replicas I've ever seen. Of course, they can show their individuality and require some tinkering. A recent 51 navy seems pretty accurate and they are putting on a higher front bead so they dont shoot quite as high. One thing we haven't resolved yet is a tendency for the cap to blow the hammer back and tie things up wiht the burst cap. We put in a heavier mainspring, but it still does it.

the recent Uberti .36s Ive seen are fairly large in the chamber mouths and the available .375 balls tend to fit loose. They would do better with .380 balls but hornady and speer have stopped making them.

I have a pedersoli standard target (percussion) that I enjoy very much. It handles .433 patched balls. I put a .440 ball on the muzzle and found it too big. With that one I use a .38 s&w case (38-200 -.380 revolver ctg) full of tripple seven and it groups very well. This case holds an even 15 grains of fffg.

Didnt find any listing for parts on the above site but I have found another domestic company that catalogs the LeMat parts. I put in a test order.

 

[ValleyForge]

Pietta doesn't get much respect in the forum, it seems, but I'm real happy with mine. It's machined well, fires accurately (to the degree that it goes where I point it), and has generally been a faithful sidekick. I'm sure the Ubertis are terrific, but I'm happy with what I got. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know better....

 

[mec]

And maybe not. I have a Pietta LeMat that works well enough to prove that they can make a very good revolver. There are a number of people saying that they have good guns from Pietta and that quality has improved quite a bit.

 

[Zonie]

I have no problems with Pietta or several other Italian companys who have made reproduction guns over the last 20 years. Some are better, and some are worse, but they all have functioned well.
I have had problems with a Spanish CVA 1849 Colt Pocket pistol and that is partially my reason for being somewhat down on Spanish made guns.

I will say though that Uberti makes the best of the reproductions. That's not putting down the other makers, it is just IMO telling it like it is.

 

[mec]

Up until today, it looks like Uberti- Uberti USA is way ahead of any of the others in terms of quality and available parts and service. It may very well be that one or two of others have caught up with them or soon will.

Things in the shooting industry sometimes undergo radical changes almost over night- sometimes for the better and other times, not.

 

[shunka]

I didn't think I was doing very well with my groups. The guy's in my club are getting 1 inch groups. They are using those pesky RUGERS though.

Remingtons have all the inherent qualities for good accuracy, perhaps yours just needs a bit of tuning?

How is your trigger pull and does the trigger break cleanly?

Examine the forcing cone - is it really smooth and of an appropriate angle?

How large is the barrel cylinder gap? too large a gap lends itself to poor accuracy.

If you remove a nipple, you can seat a greased ball in the cylinder mouth without powder, then gently push it out with a piece of drill rod.

Next gently drive a greased ball through the barrel from the forcing cone. Mark the balls so you can tell them appart.

Measure the ball, which has now been sized by the cylinder, and compare that to the size of the ball engraved by the rifleing. For best accuracy, the "cylinder" ball should be a bit larger than the "barrel" ball.

Lastly, check the indexing of each cylinder chamber - if you sand down a 1/2 in dowel rod to snugly slide down the barrel, you can tell how accurately each chamber lines up with the barrel. If this is bad, you might be able to adjust the hand or bolt, but this is often best left to the professionals. Sometimes a new cylinder is in order.

hope this helps -
best
shunka