Remington Zouave - Advice, Please

[Darkfold]

Gentlemen:

I'm looking at two 1863 Remington "Zouave" rifles on Auction Arms. One is by Zoli and the other is by Navy Arms. The Zoli is currently at $325.00 with 0 bids. The Navy Arms is at $425.99 and the Buy It Now price is $550.00. I've read good things about both makers. Are they equal in quality and if not, which is better? Is the color case hardening real or a fake chemical treatment?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Guy

 

[mloader40]

Zoli's are good and they made most of the Navy Arms Zouaves. Most of the Zouaves have .580 bores and use a .577 or larger projectile to shoot.
The Zoli I hade shot a.580 Rapine minie and was super accurate with that bullet however a .575 Lyman would key hole and was very in accurate. Check to see if the extra nipple and worm are in the patch box.
Hope this helps.
BPWRL

 

[Darkfold]

Yes, it does, thank you! The Navy Arms does have the extra nipple in the patch box.

I'm in Dundalk, I see you're just down the road in Laurel. Are you a member of the Associated Gun Clubs of Maryland? If not, look here[url] http://www.associatedgunclubs.org/[/url]

Guy

 

[Wes/Tex]

Actually, they're both the same gun just with different importers. Navy Arms has their name stamped on the guns they import and have since day one. Don't think an extra nipple is worth all the extra expence.

 

[Darkfold]

I agree, the extra nipple isn't worth it. Thank you!

Guy

 

[jdstrang]

One other possibility - the Navy Arms model may have been set up for skirmishing. That means its sights would be regulated to 50 and 100 yards instead of the typical high-hitting CW battlesight settings, and the sear/trigger may have been worked to bring it close to 3.5 pounds, rather than the 8-12 that the factory delivers.

Those two differences, all else being equal (bore condition?) would explain/justify the price difference. Without them, well, money talks...

 

[n8dawg6]

i just found the navy arms one you are talking about . . . it IS a zoli. and it also looks to me like the front sight has been raised. you can get zolis in excellent condition for cheaper than that, though

 

[Darkfold]

Actually, the only money involved would be shipping. I have an Armi Sport 1861 Springfield rifle musket with sling, bayonet and extra complete lock I've offered in trade. I am getting out of doing military in the field and don't need it any more. I've always wanted a Zouave and missed the opportunity to get one at my local toy store last year. The rifle will be used for National Congress of Old West Shootists (NCOWS); my idea is to portray a senior NCO in 1866-1872 who has acquired one of the Remingtons that sat in storage since 1863.

roundballshooter, do you think I ought to retract the offer and look around more? Thanks,

Guy 'Frenchie' LaFrance

 

[n8dawg6]

well, im not sure about value you're talking about a trade. you should be able to get a zoli in very good condition for around $350. i have seen one in "unfired" condition for around $400-425. so a used one for $425 doesnt seem like the best deal.

the zolis are actually better-made than the more recent euroarms zouaves.

 

[Darkfold]

I won the auction for the cheaper of the two Zouaves, which was easy as I was the only bidder. This one has the US eagle and NAVY ARMS Co. on the lock plate. On the right side of the breech is MADE in ITALY, on top is NAVY ARMS Co. above .58 Caliber. On the left side of the breech is ANTONIO ZOLI-GARDONE V.T. and XXIV and three proof marks, then F.A.R.A. and 9893. Does the XXIV mean it was made in 1968? What does F.A.R.A. mean?

Poppa Bear, the trigger is not heavy at all, 3 lbs maybe. I have no idea if the sights have been modified, but the front sight blade has orange paint on the back side.

It got here yesterday and I'm impressed with its heft and solidity. The barrel walls are much thicker than on my Armi Sport 1861 Springfield. All in all it's in great shape (especially if it really is 38 years old). I'm getting a saber bayonet with scabbard for it, don't want the lug on the side of the barrel to go to waste. The hausse (rear sight ) is kind of rough-looking and the leaves are secured with a modern bolt and hex nut. Any suggestions on where to get a good rear sight?

 

[jdstrang]

The light trigger, and especially the orange paint on the front sight (which likely would be squared off on top and slightly higher than the original barlycorn-type sight) lead me to believe the gun was set up for skirmishing at some point. Sounds like the back sight was jury-rigged, which raises questions about its skirmishing history. But before you swap it out, you might try a few minie balls over about 37 grains of 3f, which is a popular load for those rifles, and see where it hits and how it groups at 50 yards.

If you want a more authentic look, go to[url] http://www.lodgewood.com/[/url] which most likely has a suitable replacement sight for it. They're good people there with more musket parts than Campbell's has you-know-whats.

 

[Darkfold]

The front sight does have a flattened top. I just discovered a hole drilled in the rear sight's short leaf. It's a bit offset to the right. I can see the front sight blade through it. I'm guessing it's a peep hole. More evidence this thing was set up for skirmishing? I think I'll launch a few Miniés down range at 50 and 100 yards as it is before I start fooling with the sights, see how it does. But I'll have to wait for better weather, the world looks like a glazed doughnut today. Everybody stay safe and warm!

 

[jdstrang]

Yeah, Frenchie, the drilled peep is a dead giveaway. Somewhere between 37 and 45 grains you'll discover a thing of beauty!

Know what you mean about the weather. We've got three-foot drifts on our driveway and our neighbor, who plows it, is working with his big John Deere and the front-end-loading blade! Nobody's going ANYwhere around here today. :surrender:

 

[Zonie]

Yes, the XXIV indicates it was made in 1968.
The F.A.R.A. might mean "For Ah Rich American"?? :rotf: :grin: (I couldn't find anything about it's meaning).

zonie

 

[Darkfold]

Kewl, I got a skirmishing piece! I think I'll wander over to the N-SSA website and see what they can tell me about F.A.R.A. Thanks, guys!

 

[n8dawg6]

frenchie, i have shot two different zoli zouaves during n-ssa skirmishing. they are very solid and excellent for offhand shooting. one of the rifles had a peep drilled in the rear leaf exactly like what you describe. it was a tackdriver with lee trashcans (lee calls it a wadcutter minie). if i remember correctly the load i was using was 40 or 45 g. fffg goex