Removing front cap from GP

[madfish]

I got a Lyman Great Plains Kit that I am starting to work on. This is my first kit build and after looking it over I have a question. On the front cap and the ram rod holder thing(don't know the real name)has three little pins holding it on. Does anyone remove it work sand the wood down or for cleaning up the metal? If so how can I go about removing it. They are small like really small. If I would have to guess the size of them I would say 1/64" maybe just a hair bigger around and it looks like it goes from one side to the other almost. I don't want to take a nail or anything and make the holes bigger trying to push them out. Any tips on doing this I am all ears and will take what you got.

 

[Zonie]

The pin holes in my GPR measure about .040 inch.
That's a tad larger than 1/32 and actually equates to about 1 mm.

If I was building the gun, I would leave those pins alone. They really don't need to come out because you don't really need to remove the nose cap or the ramrod thimble.

Your task is to lightly sand the wood down so that it matches the shape of the metal nose cap without a step of any kind. The wood should not stand proud of the cap and the cap should not stand proud of the wood.

You will probably end up getting some scratches on the metal nose cap when you do this but try to keep them to a minimum.
To help minimize the scratching you can wrap several layers of masking tape around the metal part.

After the wood matches the nose cap, use some of the black "wet/dry" silicone carbide sandpaper to sand out the scratches on it.
This sandpaper is meant to be used on metal (dry) and the finer grades on painted surfaces (wet).

To remove the scratches you might want to start with some 180 grit and then go to finer grits like 320.
Note: If you intend to brown the steel parts with a slow rust solution like Laurel Mountain Barrel Browning solution, do not go finer in grit size than 320. Actually, 280 grit leaves a surface that browns very nicely. 400 grit can make the surface too smooth to get the browning solution to start to work.

If there is much mismatch between the size of the wood and the size of the metal, do not just sand the area next to the metal.

Done right, the entire area of the wood will be the same size. In other words, don't just chamfer the wood next to the nose cap. Blend its shape at least 1 1/2 inches on the sides while allowing the bottom of the forend to blend down into the area where the ramrod guide disappears into the wood.

 

[BrownBear]

If I was building the gun, I would leave those pins alone. They really don't need to come out because you don't really need to remove the nose cap or the ramrod thimble.

Sound advice. The cap on one of mine was "proud" along the barrel channel. I ended up removing it so I could better fit the channel to the barrel. Lots of on's and off's.

By the time the barrel channel was right for my tastes, the pin channels were sloppy and the blooming thing just wouldn't fit right. Had to glass bed it, but used a release agent so I could remove it in the future. Lotta extra work for what was really unnecessary work on that barrel channel.

 

[madfish]

Thanks for the info. This is my first so all the little tips to help me out is great. I guess that was my real concern was the browning part of it. The wood leading up to it is almost flush with the nose cap so very little needs to be removed. I think just a light sanding to smooth it out should be good then. The tip for sanding the metal was good to hear. To me the metal seems a little on the ruff side but I guess with a little sanding I should be able to brown it being extra care full not to get it on the wood.

 

[BrownBear]

I would definitely remove it (carefully) for browning. But when it comes to browning, the process works better for me if the metal is slightly "rough," as in sanded with 320 grit at the finest rather than polished with finer grits. Same for all other metal including the barrel. Get of surface irregularities for sure, but don't get the surface too smooth.

One of the issues I can see with browning it in place on the gun has to do with humidity. You really need high humidity for an extended period of time for browning to work right even if you keep the browning solution off the wood. I can foresee issues with wood swelling from prolonged humidity, and maybe even the potential for some bleeding from the cap into the adjacent wood when things are so damp.

That's speculation because I haven't tried it, but those are the concerns that stopped me from even trying. BTW- That's why I used a release agent when resorting to glass bedding to refit my cap.

 

[vacca rabite]

When I was using my GPR I used the correct sized pin punch and pulled all the cap and thimbles off the stock. There was a considerable amount of finishing that the wood needed. I did place the nose on (unpinned) for sizing, and did not pin it all back together until the woood working was all complete.

 

[madfish]

I was thinking about doing something like that but of course all of my punches have grown legs and walked off. I might go pick up another set of them.

 

[vacca rabite]

Yeah, a set of pin drifts from your local hardware store are going to be less then the cost of your frustration if you bugger the pin or cap or wood by trying to use a finish nail or the like as a drift...

Zach

 

[Zonie]

The browning agents are clear and will have almost no effect on the wood if they happen to get on it.

One of the hazards from removing the nose cap or butt plate while your sanding is it is all too easy to sand off more wood than is needed.

That can leave a mismatch between the wood and metal unless you start filing the metal down to match the wood.

Actually, I can't think of one good reason to remove the metal parts prior to sanding. :hmm:

As I've mentioned, I can think of several good reasons for leaving them in place.

 

[vacca rabite]

The browning agents are clear and will have almost no effect on the wood if they happen to get on it.

Actually, I can't think of one good reason to remove the metal parts prior to sanding. :hmm:

Here are a few:
1) you are limited in your browning agents to cold browning. Plum brown, Bleach, or other hot browning agents can't be used.

2) metal cleanup of the nosecap will leave iron filings in the grain of your forestock. This could effect the stain and finish used, giving your rifle a case of the freckles near the cap.

3) sanding the forestock with the cap on will lead to scratchs in the cap which will have to be filed out prior to browning.

4) The oil used to "cure" the brown on the nosecap can blemish the wood, causing uneven finish.

5) If you use a drift to remove the pin, you won't damage the wood or the pin or the nose cap.

If you choose to leave it in place, at least use tape on the nose cap to protect it while you are shaping the wood.

Zach

 

[madfish]

I plan on using Laurel Mountain Forge cold browning on the metal. I really don't need to take away that much wood by it just smooth it out.

 

[matt denison]

Gee whiz, I hate to contradict Zonie but.. I suggest that you remove those parts. It's only a few pins. If you are going to build a gun then you gotta be willing to get after it. Find or make a pin punch the right size. Push ot tap those pins out, It's quite simple actually. You can make a punch from a drill bit drilled partially into a piece of dowel or even a square piece of wood. Doesn't need to be permanant or particularly durable for what you plan to do with it. I have a half dozen homemade punches made from drill bits run into short lengths of # 20 nails (soft steel) which gives me 3-4 inches to hang onto. Works fine. For durability I solder them in.

Sometimes you have to use imagination, like after you knock those tiny pins out redrill the holes bigger to, say 1/16" then you can use 1/16" pins to re attach the parts. Nothing to fear but fear itself.

 

[BrownBear]

Sometimes you have to use imagination, like after you knock those tiny pins out redrill the holes bigger to, say 1/16" then you can use 1/16" pins to re attach the parts. Nothing to fear but fear itself.

I figured out that's what I should have done after I'd gone through all the glass bedding folderol. :redface:

 

[madfish]

Well I'm gland that I knocked them out. I just done it and to my surprise two out of the three were broken. The one that wasn't broken was bent. I guess it was a good thing that I done it and I wasn't out in the woods walking around and have it fall off to loose it.