Removing the plug worth it?

[Lock Nut]

I'm sure this has probably been discussed here before but I'm gonna ask for the opinion of the pros here :wink:

I've always had the plugs installed when buying a barrel and always inletted them into the stock with the plug/tang in the barrel.

I decided to try out a Chambers set and for the heck of it I also picked up the DVD to go with it. Right from the get go, they tell you to remove the plug from the barrel because it's a lot easier to inlet the barrel. I figured I learned something new as that made sense. I've also read that it's not a good idea either and as I found out, for the life of me I can't crack that thing loose. So before I go any further trying and screw something up. What is the best way to remove it? Or is it not worth it? :idunno: It's a rice barrel.

 

[fusil de chase]

I am not an expert or even a decent apprentice but I cannot imagine owning a muzzleloader that I had not pulled the plug from, insured that it seats properly and reassembled with never sieze or graphite in the threads. (You might even knock the tops of the threads with a light touch of emery paper)

It will come out, put it in a good vice, put a perfectly fitting wrench on it with a good long handle and give it a pull. (don't end up on your ass on the floor with a 300 pound bench across your knees)

On the other hand lots of people buy cars and drive em for 100,000 miles with out ever opening the hood...... If you trust your mechanic that is probabley fine.

 

[frogwalking]

I always remove the plug when building. The barrel is much easier to install accurately, and there is no doubt where the flash hole goes, and that it is deburred on the inside. This often means removing it more than once. It also means you can assure yourself it has been installed correctly, and fix it if it has not been. (Both my barrels from Chambers had been properly breeched.) These are not like some of the factory made rifles with funky breech plugs. Oh; You need a heavy vice with soft metal jaws, and a big honkin wrench. If you don't have these, don't try to remove the plug.

 

[galamb]

Did they "match mark" the barrel and plug for you?

If they did it is really nothing more then after the breech was timed the give the bottom flat/plug a crack with a small cold chisel such that it cuts a little line across the join.

This is done so you can ensure that you get it lined back up properly when you re-install the plug after removing it sometimes "numerous times" during a build.

I believe that the "bad idea myth" was created because some breeches on "factory made" rifles were never intended to be removed and can result in damage if you "try at home".

You are dealing with a "builders" barrel and plug and they absolutely, "routinely" are installed and removed during the building process.

If there is no match mark you can place on there yourself - either with a cold chisel or anything that will allow you to make a "permanent" line in the metal which will allow you to line things back up.

When inletting a hooked tang breech (aka Hawken style) you DO need to inlet it all as one unit with the barrel (normally glue or solder the tang to the hooked breech until after it's inlet), but on all other breech styles you will generally get a better barrel "fit" if you inlet it "sans plug".

I remove mine with an adjustable wrench (which is a bad idea, they can slip and mark the plug) - a open box wrench that "fits" the tang (bolster - is that the correct term - that "chunk" that butts up to the back of the barrel) is a better choice - don't move (back) on the tang, you can twist it up.

If you have a vice, pad it and use it to hold the barrel.

 

[Vaino]

I can't imagine building a flintlock and not pulling the breechplug....normally it's pulled a few times. Have always inletted the bbl w/o the breechplug installed.

The first reason is to check the fit at the bottom of the ctbr and also at the end of the bbl.

A depth mike is used to measure down to the ctbr ledge so an accurate location can be made for the TH liner. The liner should be installed w/o the breechplug screwed in so the drill if it wanders doesn't hit the face of the plug. Also the burr from the drilling and tapping of the liner should be filed off from the bore side.

My vise has copper liners on the jaws and copper shims are used on both sides of the breechplug bolster to avoid damage. A 12" Crescent wrench w/ a 12" pipe extension is used for removal and installation. Found that realigning the witness marks is easier when a longer "lever" is used.

Clamp the bbl tightly in the vise and don't clamp on the threaded length. Sometimes a good whack w/ a mallet will loosen a stubborn plug....Good luck.....Fred

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I would not hesitate to pull the breech plug as it is all a part of the assembling process with these part sets.

 

[Birddog6]

Well.. Can't imagine NOT pullng the breechplug, for numerous reasons. It will be breeched perfectly :idunno: it is a Rice barrel. I have owned over 75 of them &all of them are breeched perfectly. But the plug needs to come out to build it correctly.

BIG vice.... Brass shims on the vice. Don't clamp over the threads. BIG wrench & make sure the jaws don't go over the top edge of the tang. BIG workbench or bolted to wall. When ya go back with the plug just go TO.. the witness mark Rice put on there.

If ya need a photo will do tonight. Have to go to work.

Keith Lisle

 

[Lock Nut]

Thanks 'yall for the help. Yes the barrel is marked and I have a "big ass" vise. That plug is in there so tight I was worried about twisting the barrel or sumthin. :grin: I guess it's time to head out to the garage where its -10 degrees get mid-evil on that bad boy!

Does it help to heat the barrel up a bit or is that not a good idea?

 

[Lock Nut]

I got it. Just needed a little more leverage :wink:

 

[galamb]

The only thing I would add is - add a touch of anti-seize (or some form of lube) to the threads if you repeatedly pull the plug.

There was probably something on it, but it collects dirt/other cooties when the plug is out.

So whenever you re-install, give the threads a good wipe, add a bit of lube and put her back, lining up your match marks.

 

[Billnpatti]

It can be done. I have removed a couple breach plugs and unless you have the right equipment, you can booger up the outside of your barrel in the vice. You need two things. first you need a large vise with padded jaws that is fastened to a heavy bench. The pads can be made of heavy copper, brass or even some polymers. Then you need a large wrench with a long handle. I have a very large Crescent wrench that I use. Make sure that the barrel is well held in the jaws of your vise so it won't come out or move and booger up the sides of the barrel. Make sure that the wrench is properly adjusted to fit snugly on the breach plug. Then just unscrew the plug. It ain't coming out easily but with a steady pull on the wrench handle (NO YANKING!) it will come loose and then be relatively easy to unscrew. When you replace it, do not put it in bare. Apply either an anti-sieze compound or if you want to use Lok Tite, be absolutely sure it is the kind that will come loose if you ever want to remove the plug again. If you use the wrong kind of Lok Tite, you may never get that plug out again.

As a note: DO NOT cut any dovetails in the barrel for sights or underlugs with the breach plug out or you may find that when you put the plug back in, you have cut the dovetails on the side of the barrel rather than the bottom or top where you intended for them to be. Be sure that the breachplug is in and tight before cutting any dovetails and then pay close attention to which flat you are working on. You wouldn't be the first person to have the dovetails cut on the side flats rather than on the top or bottom. Those mistakes can be fixed but will be unsightly and not go unnoticed in the future.

 

[Zonie]

As a reinforcement for any new builders, when Billnpatti said "padded jaws" he was not talking about using cloth or wood on the vise jaws.

Neither of these materials are stout enough to take the loads that are needed to keep the barrel from moving.

Any soft metal except lead will work fine. Brass, copper or aluminum will work fine.
If you use a polymer (plastic) make sure it's thin. If it is thick, it will not work any better than wood, which doesn't work at all.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Any soft metal except lead will work fine.

This is interesting to me as I have been using sheet lead in my vise for breeching barrels now for the last 8 years or so.

 

[jamesthomas]

So who would you recommend to breech a barrel if your unable to do it?

 

[Old40Rod]

When I have the supplier (like Pecatonica) breech the barrel for me, I always request that they remove the plug before shipping the components... makes it a heck of a lot easier

 

[Lock Nut]

Again I thank you all for the suggestions.
I did get the plug out.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

ya know, thats a tough question as I have had several barrels that were shipped with the breech plugs witnessed yet they were not fit to my standards, this required fitting the plug another full turn.

I trust my breeching above all else.

 

[kaintuck]

Just remember.....righty tightly, lefty loosey.... :rotf:

I take them out always also, 1st to bed the barrel, then reinstall, bend tang to closely the wrist curve....remove again, file your tang design, etc...sometime undercut the tang to let it bend more~
Reinstall....bed it all down, drill the holes...remove again to drill the touchhole/drum hole, clean, paste threads...re-install again...maybe the last time???

Yup....it's a in-out thing for sure!

I just have the motherinlaw sit on the other side of the bench, then get my sister to push down on the wrench....it always come loose.... :stir:

 

[galamb]

I trust my breeching above all else.

I'm with you on that one. When I order a barrel I specify "not to install" the plug.

I figure if I am going to touch off a potential "pipe bomb" a couple inches in front of my face, I'm not going to put my trust in someone else - at least not as long as I am capable of doing the job myself - my interest in the "safety of" is definitely personal.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I figure if I am going to touch off a potential "pipe bomb" a couple inches in front of my face, I'm not going to put my trust in someone else

:thumbsup: