Renegade .56 smoothbore loads revisited

[taylorh]

Hi Guys,
There seems to be alot of talk about the renegade smooothbore .56, so I thought I'd give an update on my recent loading experiments.
My renegade mics .555. It will take a .550 ball using a very thin patch .010 (less is better) and a very clean barrel. This usually only works once or twice before becoming fowled.
I have found that it works best with a .535 ball and 80g powder, using a .018-.020 patch. It loads much easier, but still very tight. It might shoot a .540 ball better (rapine sells a mold this size for shotout .54 barrels), but I have not tried one yet.
I went shooting yesterday at my favorite dry creek. Using the .535 ball load, I can shoot two inch groups at 50 yards. I haven't tried longer distances because my creek is a winding one. I suspect they would open up to 6-8 inches at 100 yards. Recently I added the the California Sights. They were a little work (blueing and fitting), but well worth it. They look very PC for the re-enactors or anyone wanting to get rid of those huge, oversized, ugly T/C sights!
Also, I tried my hand again at making pre-made shot loads. I used a wood dowel the same diameter as my 28 gauge circle-fly, 1/8 inch over powder cards (.550 ish). I loaded them with 70 grains powder, three over powder cards, one ounce lead, topped with a 28 gauge over shot card. The whole thing is wrapped in thin, rolled brown paper and tied at the ends. It looks like a big joint when finished. :haha: I made four of these to compare to my regular load (same powder and shot but loaded straight down the shoot (powder, card, wad, shot, card) for comparison. I really like this load but its slow to reload. Thats why I continue to try to experiment with pre-made loads.
Well here is the bad news. When I got to the creek the pre-loads wouldn't even go down the shoot! The combined diameters of the 28 gauge cards and two wraps of very thin brown paper around them (from my kids lunch bags) was too thick to fit down the barrel, even lubed! These circle fly cards and wads fit the .56 renegade perfectly with no margins. I'm going back to my previous loading method until I can find something better. I do however use a 24 gauge over shot card to keep my shot firmly in place. A 28 gauge card might work as well but I haven't tried it since they (the circle-fly guy) reccommended using the 24 gauge. Also I have found that the T/C Natural Lube is great stuff. I highly reccommend it.
Good Luck with your .56's. I think T/C got it right with this one. Let me know your experiences with this smoothie.
Taylor in Texas,
:hatsoff:

 

[Swampman]

That's better accuracy than most rifled T/Cs. You did good.

 

[Bigblue250]

For my 56, a .550 ball with a patch cut from an old bandana, lubed with bore butter over 95GR of Pyrodex. Deadly inside 100 yards.

 

[taylorh]

I agree. I've tried powder charges ranging from 80-100 grains and have found that accuracy wasn't affected, so I use 80 grains for target shooting, and would up it for hunting. I think that the difference in veolocity attained by different powder charges doesn't affect smoothbore accuracy as much as with rifled guns, because the rate of rotation isn't critical to stabalizing the projectile as it would be in a rifled gun.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I have also had similar difficulties in getting pre-wrapped shot loads to work in the T/C Renegade .56cal smoothbore. I haven't given up, but have probably run out of fresh ideas...

I also have noticed that upping the charge on a smoothbore doesn't seem to cause accuracy to worsen as it would in a similar caliber rifled barrel (i.e. a .54cal T/C Renegade). I believe the phenomenon is related to that of the very shallow & very slow twist Forsythe (sp?) rifling effect, where very little twist is needed to stabilize a round ball. The round ball is the most naturally stable projectile, so it makes sense that heavier charges aren't going to make drastic changes in accuracy.

I have done some experimenting with a 12 gauge smoothbore, VERY heavy charges, and patched round balls. The results were the same. No loss in accuracy, but great increases in recoil (of course) and velocity gains were good--but after a certain point, were really not worth the extra pain in the shoulder.

The .56cal smoothbore is a very fine gun that most people just disrespect and ignore... but that's fine with me, as it makes them a great bargain! Everyone ought to have one of these or at least a near same caliber/gauge smoothbore gun. It is THE MOST versatile muzzleloader that I've ever had the pleasure to pop a cap on. It would be my first choice if I could only have one MZLDR gun to depend on as well.

I have outshot several friends' rifles at impromptu target shooting, but they still have not caught the smoothbore bug. What a pity...

Regards, and please keep experimenting, someday we will come up with that workable pre-charged loads.

WV_Hillbilly

PS Have a Grand & Prosperous New Year

 

[taylorh]

In the past I have tried 28 gauge plastic shot-cups. They are enough undersized that they will take two wraps of paper and still fall down the barrel. They work okay but you have to tear off the top of the pre-load and shove down an over-shot card. If you don't your shot will come out as a slug about 50% of the time. Again, this works, but by the time I get the pre-load, tear the bottom off, tear the top off, fumble around for the over-shot card, I haven't really saved any time. Plus using a plastic shot cup isn't all that PC. More ideas and stories needed.
Reguards,
Taylor in Texas

 

[roundball]

In the past I have tried 28 gauge plastic shot-cups. They are enough undersized that they will take two wraps of paper and still fall down the barrel. They work okay but you have to tear off the top of the pre-load and shove down an over-shot card. If you don't your shot will come out as a slug about 50% of the time. Again, this works, but by the time I get the pre-load, tear the bottom off, tear the top off, fumble around for the over-shot card, I haven't really saved any time. Plus using a plastic shot cup isn't all that PC. More ideas and stories needed.
Reguards,
Taylor in Texas

Home made paper shot cups work fantastic in my .62cal GM Flint smoothbore barrel for long range turkey loads ;

Haven't tried any shot cups in a new .54cal/.28ga GM Flint smoothbore barrel as it throws an outstanding pattern without them at the 25yds I've tested it at so far.

 

[taylorh]

I haven't tried the paper shot cups yet, but I imagine they are better than the plastic cups within the paper cartridge trick, because the plastic cups don't always open because they are wrapped in paper. I only used the plastic shot cups because they were undersized so as to fit in the plastic hull of a 28 gauge. Maybe I should try cutting off the leafs of the cup and just use the plastic cushion wad portion in my paper pre-made cartridges... :hmm:

 

[roundball]

I haven't tried the paper shot cups yet, but I imagine they are better than the plastic cups within the paper cartridge trick, because the plastic cups don't always open because they are wrapped in paper. I only used the plastic shot cups because they were undersized so as to fit in the plastic hull of a 28 gauge. Maybe I should try cutting off the leafs of the cup and just use the plastic cushion wad portion in my paper pre-made cartridges... :hmm:

My paper cups are cut off flush with the top of the shot charge...when I tried a few that were twisted and completely closed, they went all the way to and through the target like a slug.

So when I load my .62cal Flint smoothbore for turkeys, I load powder, oxyoke wonderwads, paper shot cup, shot, and OS card...the cup gives me tighter patterns at 35-40yd ranges.

In the .54/.28ga, I just load 70grns Goex 3F, 2 oxyoke wads, 1+1/8oz #6's, and an OS card...gives an excellent, dense, even pattern at the 25yd line without a paper cup at all.

 

[taylorh]

I think I need to try a larger shot size (6-ish). Smaller shot seems to spread faster instead of being denser I think it just creates a larger pattern. What are your thoughts roundball? Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[Rebel]

I use #5 lead for a lot of my hunting. It is good for rabbits and squirrels, as well as phesaents. I use $ 7 1/2 lead for doves and quail. I get a decent pattern with either size out of my cylinder bored double .12 ga.

 

[roundball]

I think I need to try a larger shot size (6-ish). Smaller shot seems to spread faster instead of being denser I think it just creates a larger pattern. What are your thoughts roundball? Has anyone else noticed this?

No question, larger size shot holds a tighter pattern for longer distances...they are heavier and resist air-spread more than smaller lighter pellets...the heavier pellets just bore right on through straight ahead and for a longer distance.
I first started patterning with 7.5's, then experimented with 6's and was shocked at the better pattern...never went back to 7.5's again.

#4's and #5's would probably be even better for longer distances but pellet count is really shrinking with #4's and #5's, so at some point you have to decide, based upon what you're hunting and the average distance to the target, etc

 

[walruskid1]

picken' it up at ups tonight! my first smoothie! thanks for the input guys.

 

[taylorh]

Let us know all the details!!! :grin:
Taylor in Texas