REPAIR on RIFLING - old original austrian Jaeger rifle

[EPIMENIDIS]

Good day from Europe to every rifleman of the ...new world !

I have a question to the SPECIALISTS of the new world.

I just bought an old original austrian Jaeger flintlock rifle, approx. year of construction early 1700s.
Rifle is in very good condition and 100% usable. Bore is amazing clean for the age of the rifle ! It has the
classical old style rifling with "half round" grooves of that period (no idea how this kind of rifling is called in USA).
Lands are 99% perfect and clean, from muzzle to the chamber. Bore was full with thick old grease when I bought the rifle !
See pictures please.
Grooves are very fine too, except of 2 small rust holes just at the middle of barrels length.
Is not easy to measure them, but the size should be 2X2 mm the small one, and 3X5mm the bigger.
Depth of holes about 1,5mm.
I asked 3-4 rifling specialists in Ferlach (they have seen the barrel) and in Germany about the posibility to
repair this damage. All of them gave me the same simple answer. "Hone the bore and recut the rifling" ...
It is clear this can be done on every old barrel if material is thick enough ! !
But I want to let the rifle as original as possible and if there is a posibility to find a way of repairing it gently
and decently (no matter of cost) I would to it.

Thanking in advance for any comments, ideas and suggestions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Epimenidis

5

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Those in English are called "pits". You have pits inside your barrel.

So you just want it repaired OR do you want to shoot it?
If you just want to repair the rifling, save your money and leave it alone.

IF you want to shoot it, THEN take it out and shoot it..., and see if the patches are harmed by the barrel pits, and what sort of accuracy you get. It could be that they have negligible effect on accuracy, and in that case, ignore them and be very diligent when you clean the barrel so they don't get worse.

In The States, IF you had to have it re-rifled, you might have a very difficult task finding a gunsmith who would do it as a duplicate of the rifling style now in the barrel. Austria might be different when it comes to antique rifle repair. But honing or reboring the barrel to remove the old rifling would work, but it would be less than "original" and the caliber would increase.

OH and we need to see photos of the whole rifle, please.

LD

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

Thank you for your answer ! I understand what you mean. I bought the gun in Bavaria just a couple of days before i depart, it is now ...sleeping in Ferlach and cant shoot it right now, I ll be abroad for 2+ months. In Ferlach, in the X-Genossenschaft (gunmakers cooperative where in the past all kind of rough material for guns has been produced) is still a lot of rifling done, for the few left gunmakers and for many foreign clients. Mostly they do rifling on single kipplauf barrels or double express demi-block barrels, from 5,5mm to 1'' nitro express, it means they can do any kind of rifling, "slow", "fast", progressing, etc. Is clear too, that caliber would increase (now its about 16+mm if i remeber well and weight is 4,5Kgr !). This NOT interesting for me at any case !

I think i have some pictures of the rifle, but let me to find them first (mobile phone is always full with pictures, and its not easy to find them when they are stored in bulk in my laptop). I promise to post them, its not a ...military secret ;-)

But at any case would be glad to receive ideas (no matter if crazy or realistic) on repairing the rifling, w i t h o u t honing the bore.

Greetings from Greece.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Shoot it first and see how it goes. Many old rifles with barrels in worse condition than yours still shoot quite well.

 

[TDM]

For its age, I think the rifling looks spectacular. Yes, you have the two small pits but I’d say not to worry. If @Loyalist Dave and @Uncle Miltie say shoot it, I agree.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

That gun will shoot fine just the way it is.

 

[SOLANCO]

I too believe you should shoot the rifle. I suspect it may be quite accurate as is. As suggested above, examine the fired patches for damage.

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

Pictures of the rifle.

 

[rich pierce]

• I totally muffed on trying to make this a bulleted list working on my phone. Bear with me. I have done a lot of recutting of original rifling as it was done routinely in the past. It’s not easy to explain in detail in limited space but here are the basics:

STEP 1: POUR A LEAD LAP ON A DOWEL
Get a hardwood rod almost bore diameter and a foot longer than the barrel.
Unbreech the barrel.
4” from one end of the rod file a groove 1/8” deep around the rod. This will hold string in place, wound around the groove and built up to make a strong gasket seal in the bore.
From just above the groove, encompassing 3” of the rod toward the end, file the rod square with the square diagonals smaller than the dowel. We will cast a lead lap onto this square portion.
Insert the un-altered end of the rod into the muzzle till the “string groove” is just above the muzzle. Wrap with cotton string till you have built up a little ridge and tie it off and cut the end.
Gently push the rod in till the square portion is just beneath the muzzle crown.
You may need to file or gouge a little groove to pour lead into, right at the top of the square portion.
Heat the top 6” of the barrel with a propane torch till water sizzles while melting 2 ounces of lead in a ladle.
Pour the lead into the muzzle, filling the square relieved portion of the rod.

If anyone wants the further steps, let me know.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

My two "nephews" have just been through the Ferlach 4 year schooling and will be based in their brand new workshop at their fathers gunshop near Martredwitz, Bavaria beginning the end of January next year. Nice old piece there. Weidmannsheil.

 

[TDM]

Pictures of the rifle.

It’s just beautiful! What were you trying to point out on the tumbler?

 

[appalichian hunter]

I would shoot it first, you might be surprised how it does. My bet is it will shoot just fine, actually would be a shame to re-bore and rifle, and take away its original features.

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

It’s just beautiful! What were you trying to point out on the tumbler?

the small moving part (no idea how is it called in englich) which all locks with set trigger have. In Germany they call is "fliege" = fly.

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

My two "nephews" have just been through the Ferlach 4 year schooling and will be based in their brand new workshop at their fathers gunshop near Martredwitz, Bavaria beginning the end of January next year. Nice old piece there. Weidmannsheil.

Good luck to them ! New german gun law is simply killing gun bussines....

 

[Rifleman1776]

For its age, I think the rifling looks spectacular. Yes, you have the two small pits but I’d say not to worry. If @Loyalist Dave and @Uncle Miltie say shoot it, I agree.

Ditto all of them. Very often pitting will not affect accuracy. But, good cleaning after use is critical.

 

[vintovka]

Sure you have done this already but how does it feel running a tight cleaning patch up and down bore. Does it snag the patch?

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

• I totally muffed on trying to make this a bulleted list working on my phone. Bear with me. I have done a lot of recutting of original rifling as it was done routinely in the past. It’s not easy to explain in detail in limited space but here are the basics:

STEP 1: POUR A LEAD LAP ON A DOWEL
Get a hardwood rod almost bore diameter and a foot longer than the barrel.
Unbreech the barrel.
4” from one end of the rod file a groove 1/8” deep around the rod. This will hold string in place, wound around the groove and built up to make a strong gasket seal in the bore.
From just above the groove, encompassing 3” of the rod toward the end, file the rod square with the square diagonals smaller than the dowel. We will cast a lead lap onto this square portion.
Insert the un-altered end of the rod into the muzzle till the “string groove” is just above the muzzle. Wrap with cotton string till you have built up a little ridge and tie it off and cut the end.
Gently push the rod in till the square portion is just beneath the muzzle crown.
You may need to file or gouge a little groove to pour lead into, right at the top of the square portion.
Heat the top 6” of the barrel with a propane torch till water sizzles while melting 2 ounces of lead in a ladle.
Pour the lead into the muzzle, filling the square relieved portion of the rod.

If anyone wants the further steps, let me know.

Sure you have done this already but how does it feel running a tight cleaning patch up and down bore. Does it snag the patch?

Yes, I ve done it ! I have cleaned the bore with fine steel brushes, although it was almost as good as you see in the pictures. And no, it does not snag the patch, because nothing stays higher than lands or grooves. The rusty part is lower than lands or gooves. Ιt is exactly as caries on a tooth. Meterial is m i s s i n g.

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

See the simple drawing

 

[vintovka]

Yes, I ve done it ! I have cleaned the bore with fine steel brushes, although it was almost as good as you see in the pictures. And no, it does not snag the patch, because nothing stays higher than lands or grooves. The rusty part is lower than lands or gooves. Ιt is exactly as caries on a tooth. Meterial is m i s s i n g.

Good to hear. I would just shoot it and not worry.

Hervorragendes Beispiel für ein Jager Gewehr!!!

 

[EPIMENIDIS]

Good to hear. I would just shoot it and not worry.

Hervorragendes Beispiel für ein Jager Gewehr!!!

I dont worry at all and barrel is very thick ! Barrel's material (although more than 250 years old, and its nor ...Krupp ...neither Boehler steel) is of very good quality and very hard (to file). I'm discussing this not for security reasons, but I'd just like to find a way to fix it ;-) There are so many super modern materials in the market nowdays !