Replacement rod for my Traditions Hawken Woodsman?

[Crooked Ramrod]

Looks to me like you are just jumping from thread to thread and copying the same bashing post - so you can bash a very good vendor.......

Oh a really trusty vendor? Look at that pretzel they sold me and then, telling me it will straighten out with use.

 

[FishDFly]

I disagree, people need to know which are the good companies and which ones are totally scam artists.

I am a repeat customer at October Country, never had a bad experience and will continue to do business with them.

If they were such scam artist, they would be be permitted to advertise in Muzzle Blasts and Muzzle Loader.

 

[Crooked Ramrod]

I am a repeat customer at October Country, never had a bad experience and will continue to do business with them.

If they were such scam artist, they would be be permitted to advertise in Muzzle Blasts and Muzzle Loader.

With enough money, you can advertise anywhere. Why would such a reputable company sell a pretzel as a ramrod and then give false advice. Who believes the rod is going to straighten itself with use?

 

[Zonie]

With enough money, you can advertise anywhere. Why would such a reputable company sell a pretzel as a ramrod and then give false advice. Who believes the rod is going to straighten itself with use?

After looking at an enlarged photo of your ramrod, it doesn't look that bad to me.
First of all, good ramrod's are seldom straight like the things often supplied by the major muzzleloading gun makers. A good ramrod is made by first splitting the wood to get it close to the finished size. The next step is drawing the wood thru a set of progressively smaller dies so the outside of it follows the grain of the wood. If the limb that the ramrod was made from grew slightly crooked or bent before it was cut, the finished ramrod will also be crooked or bent. By making a ramrod this way, the grain of the wood that the rod is made from is one continuous strand from one end to the other, which is much stronger and less likely to break than a ramrod that has been made by machining the outside without regard to the woods grain.

Machining ramrods without regard to the woods grain is how modern large production companies like Thompson Center, Pedersoli, Uberti and several others make their ramrods. By doing this, usually, the grain breaks out thru the side of the ramrod resulting in something that looks like this:

If a ramrod has these grain breakouts, it is very likely to split with the split following the grain. That will leave a very sharp point which can easily stab thru your hand or arm. This has happened to several of our members.

If the ramrod October Country sent you and it has grain breakout like this, then they are at fault. In that case, you have a legitimate argument for sending it back to them and demanding a new one. If you do, make it plain to them that the reason for rejecting the ramrod is due to "grain runout".

If there are no grain boundaries like I show in this drawing above, your ramrod is far better than most factory ramrods even though it is bent.

Being bent isn't really a problem because first of all, the ramrod will tend to stay in the ramrod hole better than if it is perfectly straight. This will keep it in place while your carrying the gun and shooting it but, it should still be easy to pull it out of the hole when you need to reload.
A ramrod doesn't have to be straight to work well.
When you use it, you should be grabbing the rod no further than 1 foot above the face of the muzzle. Then, push the ball down the bore. Move your hand up to 1 foot above the barrel, grasp the rod and repeat the ramming part. Continue to do this until the ball or bullet seats on the powder.

Those movies that show people grabbing the ramrod at the far tip and shoving the ball or bullet down the barrel are typical of movies. They look good but they are totally wrong. Ramming a ball or bullet that way is a sure fire good way of breaking even the best of ramrods.

 

[Crooked Ramrod]

I'm totally aware of the above information, which I find very accurate. The problem is, it won't even come close to fitting in the ramrod holder. Is their advice to me correct? If I jam it down the ramrod holder, or use a piece of wood or a mallet to force it, which is the only possible way it will fit, will the rod straighten out in a few days? I just don't see how forcing something that doesn't fit, will make it straighten out. If I jam it in there, what are the odds I'm going to be able to get it out if I'm lucky enough not to damage the brass thimbles that hold the rod?

 

[Crooked Ramrod]

Here are pictures of four different grain run outs on my new October Country ramrod. Would anyone like to purchase it?

 

[Zonie]

No. Ramming it into the thimbles and ramrod hole won't greatly straighten it.
Based on the pictures you show, you have a good arguement for asking them to replace the ramrod. The one they sold you does have the dreaded grain runout.
As I said before, make it plain to them that the problem is grain runout. Don't get all caught up in the "bent" complaint.

As far as fitting the ramrod holes in your gun goes, almost all ramrods I've every had to make to fit the rifles I've built required reducing their diameter to a point that they would easily slide into place.
I've done this with course sandpaper but the method that worked best was to make a scraper with a tiny hooked edge on it. It was easier to use and worked quicker than sandpaper.

I made mine with a small piece of hardenable steel sheet metal although a piece of mild steel sheet metal will work almost as well.

Cut the sheet metal down into a workable size. Then, put it into a vise with one edge sticking up and protruding out of the vise about 1/8". Pick up a drill bit and holding it at an angle of about 30 degrees above horizontal, press the smooth shank against one side of the metal and push it back and forth across the width of the metal. This will roll a burr edge on the piece and this edge will work just like a small plane to shave wood off of the ramrod.

You can see the chips these scrapers make in this photo. The curved forms have this burred hook formed into them as well.

Other's have used pieces of broken glass to scrape ramrods down but they don't remove wood as quickly as these metal scrapers.

 

[Crooked Ramrod]

Great photos and illustrations!

I used to find a broken glass gallon jug with the finger ring still attached ( I started muzzleloading in the early 1980's). Those work great for working down the diameter.

With this particular rod, if I remove that much wood, the rod would never be structurally strong enough to remove a stuck ball if necessary and probably not strong enough to run a second or third ball without thoroughly cleaning the barrel between shots, which isn't practicle in the rare event you need a second shot in the deer woods. With the grain runout, reducing the diameter that much is likely to break the rod with use and the emergency room doctor would be removing a huge splinter through the center of my hand.

Under these circumstances, if I use this rod, I will have to hunt with the rifle in one hand and the rod in the other.

 

[rafterob]

Advice I gleaned from this site years ago; Don't buy pre-made ram rods. When you buy ramrod blanks, buy a half dozen. If you are lucky, there will be 2 good ones in the bunch. Sometimes one. Use the others for projects, garden stakes or kindling. Unless you have a local source where you can actually hand pick them, this is the best advice.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Advice I gleaned from this site years ago; Don't buy pre-made ram rods. When you buy ramrod blanks, buy a half dozen. If you are lucky, there will be 2 good ones in the bunch. Sometimes one. Use the others for projects, garden stakes or kindling. Unless you have a local source where you can actually hand pick them, this is the best advice.

Agreed!
I have received a couple that were not straight, but using Eric's method as described:

Like said, straightening ramrods is part of the process; heat the bend over your stove until you can barely touch the rod, wear gloves and bend it in the opposite direction of the bend ever so slightly on the heal of your hand. Give the rod a spin and look down it, if it looks like you got some of the bend out let it cool and go to another spot, work your way up and down the rod. It take a little while to get the "feel" of straightening, we tend to overdo it at first, if you do just go back the opposite way.

It only took a few minutes in a couple of sessions to have a good working rod.
It ain't rocket science - just part of the enjoyment of the hobby.
When I'm not shootin', I am tinkering - and that is only a very small part of a much larger picture of our hobby.
AND - I only use the gun rod if I need to reload when afield hunting, for the other 99% of the time I spend at the range I use a brass range rod for wiping, loading and cleaning.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I disagree, people need to know which are the good companies and which ones are totally scam artists.

All my dealings with October Country were excellent. No company is going to have a perfect record, but to incessantly bash them over one crooked ramrod is a little over the top, IMHO. Maybe your demeanor when dealing with them contributed to how they reacted. They have always been pleasant, helpful & appreciative when I have dealt with them. It's a ramrod, for crying out loud, that cost a few bucks not the end of the world. To call them "total scam artists" is out of line. Grow up, get over it & move on!

 

[TexasAndy]

There are plenty of good options and there have been some good recommendations above. I really really like the OxYoke "Rugged ramrods" They are slightly flexible and are made either from fiber glass or maybe delrin?? I'm not sure all I know is I have several of them and they work great.

 

[Crow-Feather]

The rod that came with my Hawkens is a rather flimsy plastic looking thing so I always use a range rod from TOW.
Problem is when shooting at an event it would be much easier to just load from my bag rather than walking back to a loading table.

Any body make replacement heavy-duty rods for the Trad Woodsman Hawken?

I just tuck my range rod under my belt.

 

[Rifleman1776]

It may not be as traditional as a hickory ramrod but I like the idea of using a brass rod that is not a range rod but one that goes in the rifle.

A brass rod will add weight to the rifle, especially at the muzzle end. This may not be an acceptable approach for everyone. I used to make and sell Delrin rods. Unbreakable, light and look OK.

 

[Flinty Scot]

I've had great success getting good rods from Log Cabin. Straight grain that I needed to taper to fit. Haven't had one break.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

I have made several rods from "snakey" rod stock. Heat it and straighten it is no big deal. Ramrods don't necessarily need to be laser straight, just straight enough. If you can make them really straight then, great. If not then, ok. Some guys like a bit of a snakey ramrod because it stays in the pipes better. I have even used rods with some (GASP!) grain runout. If the wood is sound and not weak at that spot, it will not break, provided you are using it properly. I, personally, have NEVER broken off a wood ramrod and make all my own rods. Even my range rod is made from a 48 inch oak dowel. The only thing I did learn was to make sure to pin all ends on. Other than that, it's not a big deal. I have made rods from oak, hickory, maple, cherry, walnut, and poplar. They will all work but I do prefer hickory.

 

[Ames]

Long thread for $3 worth of hickory. Buy another one.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Long thread for $3 worth of hickory. Buy another one.

GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR!!!!!