Restoration work on an Older Build

[waarp8nt]

Gentlemen,

Backstory or history; I have purchased a rifle from an auction a couple of months ago and it appears to be an older build. Along with the rifle, was the start of another build (stock and barrel) and some misc. parts and tooling.

The rifle is 45 cal with some brass inlays and some moderate curl to the stock. Overall the gun is nice with some minor issues from a hobbyist build. The hammer would not **** until the trigger was set, so I removed the lock, trigger guard (pinned) and trigger. I managed to shim the trigger down as it was set too deeply into the stock and now the lock cocks properly / functions as it should. I took pictures of the trigger assembly and lock while they were out. I'm just wondering if anyone has any information on the quality of the lock and triggers? I have not been able to find much on the internet about them.

Thanks, Wyatt

 

[plmeek]

Wyatt,

I don't recognize the triggers and can't help you with them, but the lock was made by Harold W. Robbins.

Harold Robbins was a very early lock maker. Below is an advertisement from March 1965 Muzzle Blasts. He made locks in the 1960's and 1970's. He eventually had a line of about half dozen different lock styles.

He made quality locks. His springs were forged rather than cast and most of the internal parts were machined instead of cast.

Robbins was confined to a wheel chair, but he had a machine shop that was set up to be fully accessible from his wheel chair.

The only issue with your lock is that parts are no longer available, so be careful if you ever decide to dissemble it. I doubt that anything would break under normal use, but you could break a main spring or lose a fly if you tried to take the lock apart.

Phil Meek

 

[waarp8nt]

Phil,

Thanks for the reply. That was some interesting reading and history. I have the upmost respect for Mr. Robbins work ethic and can honestly say I'm proud to own one of his locks!

Thanks, Wyatt

 

[bubba.50]

Now where’s the pix of the rest of the gun for us to admire? :hmm:

 

[waarp8nt]

Now where’s the pix of the rest of the gun for us to admire? :hmm:

How is this one for you bubba.50?!?

The fellow was pretty fair at installing inlays and patch boxes.

He fell somewhat short on the scroll work, as you can see the gouges in the wood. There is plenty of meat left on the wood, I thought about scraping the high spots / gouge marks with a piece of broken glass, carefully removing the wood and attempting to smooth it up a bit. Anyone with a suggestion on how to handle it? It would be an excellent rifle if not for the gouge marks, thus why I made the remarks a hobbist build.

 

[bubba.50]

A set of curved end rifflers would do the job for ya. A good set can be a bit spendy so, don’t know if it’d be worth it if this is the only time you’d likely use them.

 

[54ball]

Wyatt,
It is what it is.
Get it functioning. Get it clean.... maybe wax it up real good and enjoy. That's what I would do.

It has a personality right now. It comes from when builders did not have the resources we have now.
To try to make this rifle into what's expected now would be futile IMHO. You would be better off restocking it.....
But why? It looks like a good rifle.
To try fix it like cleaning up the carving...... slimming it down...

Takes away all it has.

As said this is my opinion.

 

[waarp8nt]

Wyatt,
It is what it is.
Get it functioning. Get it clean.... maybe wax it up real good and enjoy. That's what I would do.

It has a personality right now. It comes from when builders did not have the resources we have now.
To try to make this rifle into what's expected now would be futile IMHO. You would be better off restocking it.....
But why? It looks like a good rifle.
To try fix it like cleaning up the carving...... slimming it down...

Takes away all it has.

As said this is my opinion.

Your not the first to tell me that...another fellow told me the same thing...maybe I should be listening. Thanks for your input!

 

[bubba.50]

A little smoothin’ up of the relieved areas of the carvin’ followed by a refinish on the stock & you’re gold.

My opinion & yer welcome to it.

 

[Davemuzz]

I'm in agreement with Bubba.50. I'm sure you could clean up those carvings to actually look like a nice carving. A stock refinish then would make the rifle a much nicer piece.

MHO

 

[apachesx2]

Just my 2 cent, I have Hershel House dvd's and swear he can build a muzzleloader from a hunk of pig iron and a tree in his sleep... One things he stressed about the originals was that they weren't perfect for the most part they were built by gunsmiths and apprentices not always master wood makers or engravers... There was at least one that was a cabinet maker turned gunsmith... His point was the originals weren't perfect and he claimed the main ingredient is they were built as if they were in a hurry... In my take away was if you want to capture the look and feel of an original you have to build it like you were in a hurry because he felt the originals were built in that manner because they were a business and in the business of making and fixing custom guns not attempting to win master art award. It was about making money... It's easy to push yourself if your a master in your field... My opinion is if want to keep as original keep as an original as possible and only repair what is necessary but if you bought to be just another functioning gun in the safe fix and replace what ever you want because its yours but the more you do the less original it is. Same deal with original vintage coins the more you do beyond a point the less they are worth... I do want to compliment you on your find... Nice find... I miss the older build thing I would attempt to clean it up a little like the carving if I had the skills....

 

[54ball]

I'm in agreement with Bubba.50. I'm sure you could clean up those carvings to actually look like a nice carving. A stock refinish then would make the rifle a much nicer piece.

MHO

This is all a matter of opinion and taste. My opinion may sound a little brutal. I don't mean this to be argumentative.

There's some flaws in architecture with this rifle.
Some areas of this rifle are still in the square.
The carving is way too deep.
The basic design of the carving is unlike anything you will see on a period rifle. Cleaning up the background is not going to help. My opinion is it may make the rifle look worse.

With the above said.....
It seems to be proportioned well overall.
As long as the lock bolster is against the barrel side flat....
As long as the triggers and lock functions safely....
As long as the mechanical basics of the are good, I would be happy with it as is.

The tool marks in the carving actually add a charm to it. It is a piece of 20th Century folk art. Somebody did a lot of work there. They did a lot of work to the whole rifle. It has a certain charm.

Artistically this is like taking a Picasso and trying to make it into a Rembrandt. The end result is going to be neither.
It's got the folk art thing going... cleaning it up takes that away.

I'm kind of sentimental about art... any art. Somebody does a painting or drawing....I'm not going to go back and correct it mainly because, it's not my art.

As piece of folk art I really enjoy the decoration on that rifle.

Since this rifle has basic flaws in architecture and decoration design... trying to fix all of it... takes away what it has.
Really to truly " fix" all the issues... it needs to be restocked. That means building another rifle..,,
As I said in a previous post...

It is what it is.

 

[54ball]

To get all sentimental and sappy....

I really like the rifle.... It seems to be a happy creation that from the get go was not built with authenticity in mind.
It was built as the idea of a period long rifle and not as a period rifle. Big difference.

I would let it make me happy.

 

[Col. Batguano]

I too will add a big :metoo: to the above. Sure, I could go on and on about the stuff that is't perfect on this gun, and stands to be corrected. But, as others have said, as an older contemporary build, it's something of a historical item now too. we don't "fix" all the flaws in originals when we get them, and Lord knows there are flaws in them.

I say, if you want an award winning gun you should buy, build, or contract for one with that goal in mind from the start. You're going to pay for it (one way or another) though. Personally, I take more pride in being able to say; "I made that" than I do in saying; "I fixed that". Yes, there is also pride in restoration work, but this gun doesn't fall in to the "rescue a decayed original" the way restoring and preserving the raised wreck of the Wasa or Mary Rose does.