Restorian The English Sporting Gun

[Feltwad]

For many decades I have restored many English Sporting Guns from flint to the modern breech loader.
On the flint and percussion guns which are from 250 to 150 years restoration must not be carried too far a gun of the age should look its age not something straight of the shelf today you find many restoration that have been carried to far. One part of restoration that is over done is the checkering which should only be cleaned by removing grime etc with a old tooth brush , if the checkering has worn away the gun should be left that way ,to recheck there is nothing worse than handling crisp checkering on a 150 +year gun .There is a golden rule on restoration if in doubt leave it be .
Feltwad
A stand of English Percussion Guns

 

[fleener]

English Sporting guns are perhaps my favorite. Love the pictures.

thanks

Fleener

 

[old gunsmith]

Hello Feltwad,
I do agree that a fine old firearm should restored in a way that reflects its history and use. There is nothing nicer than a well cared for 200 year old antique with wonderful mellow patina; but what should you do with a basically sound firearm that has a disfigurement that detracts from its esthetics and its value? I don't know how you may feel but I'm of the mind that one should correct the disfigurement and re-patinate the repair to match the over all condition of the rest of the firearm. I think there's a fine line here between restoration and fakery and I would say that each case is different and requires good judgement, but I believe many people would consider my approach unethical. I wonder then what your thoughts and other folks thoughts may be on this. (I'm a professional and I work to my client's instructions so I can't claim to be much of a purist!) Best regards, old gunsmith

 

[Feltwad]

Hello Feltwad,
I do agree that a fine old firearm should restored in a way that reflects its history and use. There is nothing nicer than a well cared for 200 year old antique with wonderful mellow patina; but what should you do with a basically sound firearm that has a disfigurement that detracts from its esthetics and its value? I don't know how you may feel but I'm of the mind that one should correct the disfigurement and re-patinate the repair to match the over all condition of the rest of the firearm. I think there's a fine line here between restoration and fakery and I would say that each case is different and requires good judgement, but I believe many people would consider my approach unethical. I wonder then what your thoughts and other folks thoughts may be on this. (I'm a professional and I work to my client's instructions so I can't claim to be much of a purist!) Best regards, old gunsmith

You mention disfigurement well to me that depends ,if it was a flintlock converted to percussion then it should be left because that is part of the history of the gun I have had plenty to say about this in other threads
If it was a stock repair then ok breaks and such providing you can blend it in but I leave small shallow dents . Checkering is a common one has I have previous explained. You will also find that removing some pitting to do so they remove so many thou and on doing so remove the engraving , to re engrave is just the same has checkering .
You will often find that a gun is missing a hammer or part of metal furniture then if you have no original parts then you will have to turn to castings ,I am not in favour of that but it can be excused if that is the only option
If you look at the stock repair in the image on gun No 2 this is a good strong repair and was done at 100years it is not out of place so it was left mostly to save the figure and patina of the stock
Has I said restoration should not be carried to far a gun should look its age not something straight of the shelf so always remember if in doubt leave it be
Feltwad

 

[Feltwad]

You will often find that most percussion and flint sporting guns by well known gun makers including those of provincial towns would have there guns for traveling in mahogany fitted cases enclosed are a couple of these provincial makers.
Feltwad

 

[Feltwad]

You will often find that most percussion and flint sporting guns by well known gun makers including those of provincial towns would have there guns for traveling in mahogany fitted cases enclosed are a couple of these provincial makers.
Feltwad

Rowntree 12 bore muzzle loader

W.R.Pape 12 bore muzzle loader

 

[Artificer]

Lovely mahogany cases there, thanks for showing them.

Your use of the term "provincial gunmakers" intrigued me. I have used that term to describe any of the following:

A. Any gunmaker outside London

B. Any gunmaker outside London and Birmingham.

C. Any gunmaker outside either of those two cities

May I ask which, if any, is the common meaning for a provincial gunmaker? Thank you.

Gus

 

[Feltwad]

Lovely mahogany cases there, thanks for showing them.

Your use of the term "provincial gunmakers" intrigued me. I have used that term to describe any of the following:

A. Any gunmaker outside London

B. Any gunmaker outside London and Birmingham.

C. Any gunmaker outside either of those two cities

May I ask which, if any, is the common meaning for a provincial gunmaker? Thank you.

Gus

Has both London and Birmingham are the main gun making centres with a Proof House. Those gun makers who worked outside of these cities in different counties were known has provincial gun makers
This does not mean that there work was not has good has those of the main centres most provincial gun makers bought in parts from Birmingham for to build their guns .
Feltwad

 

[Artificer]

Thank you for that information.

On one of my two trips to the World Muzzle Loading Championships at Wedgnock, UK back in the 90's; I was hoping to visit Birmingham, because I knew it had been a large center of gunmaking and particularly military guns in which I am most interested. As it turned out, we did not have time to officially visit Birmingham, but I was asked to go with a driver back to Heathrow and pick up one of our Team Members who had missed his flight and came in very late. The idea was we would keep each other awake as we had arrived with our group some hours earlier.

On our way back, we overshot Coventry and wound up getting off the highway in Birmingham. We finally found a Food Truck near a college campus that was open and selling scrambled eggs. (I had hoped they were selling fish and chips.) The proprietor gave us directions back to Coventry and we got back there all right, but could not find our hotel.

We finally found a convenience store that was open for drive through business and the worker took pity on us and allowed us in the store while he gave us directions. He explained that since Coventry had grown up AROUND a castle, the roads were not laid out like a Roman Town with parallel and perpendicular streets. Most of the roads in Coventry were curved around ever widening circles. Fortunately the store worker's directions were excellent and without them, we probably would have driven around the city for hours ....... :rotf:

Gus

 

[George]

I have an English percussion double which seems to have been treated as you recommend, Feltwad, and it makes a very attractive gun.













I have a couple of questions a bit off topic, but maybe you can help. This gun has barrels 40-inches long, what would the main purpose of such a gun have been? My first thought was waterfowl, but it's marked as a 14 gauge, which seems light for that job. Is this an unusual combination for English guns at that time?

Also, the gun has Manton stamped on the lock plates. Assuming this is almost certainly not the famous Joseph Manton, were there other Manton gunmakers, or is this an attempt to take advantage of the famous brand, as was pretty common at the time?

Spence

 

[Jason Lewis]

With 40" tubes, I'd bet it is a waterfowl gun spence.

 

[Feltwad]

I have worked on several of these 36 and 40 inch D/B barrelled guns of smaller calibre ,yes they were used for wildfowl mostly on the ings {marshes} where the quarry could be from geese to snipe which would include duck, coot and others.
For the Manton gun most likely it was made by the many different Mantons both John and Joseph Manton guns always had the address engraved along the barrel rib .
Feltwad

 

[DickS]

I have a rather nice 14 bore double marked "Manton". Decent quality Birmingham gun. Inside, the locks are stamped WS; maybe William Smith. The gun is too nice for the "Manton" to be a spurious misuse. I suspect Manton of Montreal who was a retailer. The gun came from the Ottawa Valley.