Retina issues and Recoil

[SDSmlf]

I am considering having a .40 or .45 southern mountain rifle for target shooting, offhand practice, and up to deer hunting. It will probably have a swamped 42" to 45" barrel. I know the .40 would be no problem recoil wise, but not sure about the .45. Roundballs only. Any thoughts appreciated.

Don’t know what you have tucked away in your gun safe, but you may already have the answer to your dilemma. I would start with your favorite gun loaded to pistol level powder charges and see what you get. Maybe 30 grains or so of powder as a starting point. Once you have an accurate load at a reasonable hunting distances, say 50 yards, test the load. I know when I was a youngster, the old man had us shoot at a couple of sheets of 3/4” plywood spaced about 1-1/2” apart (thickness of 2x4 framing). If whatever we were ‘testing’ at a specific distance didn’t blow through the first sheet and severely damaged or penetrate the second sheet, it was not acceptable for deer hunting. Simple test, but clear cut. You might be surprised. And in your case, a few more grains of powder over the powder puff loads with guns you already own may get you in the winner’s circle. Biggest problem today is cost of plywood.

Good luck. Age is going to catch us all.

 

[Whitworth]

The .45 is very pleasant to shoot with a patched ball since it only weighs 127 grains. Recently I noticed a new "floater" that seemed more prominent then usual floaters. That night while standing in the driveway on a cloudless night talking to my brother I kept jerking my head around seeing snow flurries out the corner of my eye, he probably thought I was crazy. Next day the floater was still there, like a tent rope flapping in the breeze. Got worried and went to the eye Doc and was told I had Posterior Vitreous Detachment. Told it was normal for a man my age (71) and to expect it the other eye in year or so, oh joy. The fluid filled portion of the eye is shrinking with age and pulling away from the outer portion. The "floater" is loose attachment tissue and reflects light, hence seeing snow flurries after dark from light sources and during the day seeing something that's not there out of the corner of my eye. I asked the eye Doc about recoil and they said recoil didn't cause it and I could keep shooting as normal. YMMV

 

[bud in pa]

Read an article by an Alaskan guide. He was shooting a 505 Gibbs and noticed a large muzzle flash. His shooting partner, who was an eye surgeon didn't see the flash. He told the guide to stop shooting as the recoil was causing his retina to detach temporarily .

 

[leadhoarder]

I would imagine you could shoot up to a 54 or 58 PRB without issue. I know recoil is pretty light with a 54. Nowhere near a modern shotgun, dangerous game rifle, or classic large bore ball shooter.

 

[DuncNZ]

Don’t know what you have tucked away in your gun safe, but you may already have the answer to your dilemma. I would start with your favorite gun loaded pistol load powder charges and see what you get. Maybe 30 grains or so of powder as a starting point. Once you have an accurate load at a reasonable hunting distances, say 50 yards, test the load. I know when I was a youngster, the old man had us shoot at a couple of sheets of 3/4” plywood spaced about 1-1/2” apart (thickness of 2x4 framing). If whatever we were ‘testing’ at a specific distance didn’t blow through the first sheet and severely damaged or penetrate the second sheet, it was not acceptable for deer hunting. Simple test, but clear cut. You might be surprised. And in your case, a few more grains of powder over the powder puff loads with guns you already own may get you in the winner’s circle. Biggest problem today is cost of plywood.

Good luck. Age is going to catch us all.

A stack of side on wet phone books tied together is ideal , and you can catch the bullet to see how it performed and record the number of pages it went through , and find where penetration stops no matter the powder charge . Cheaper than ballistic jell .
A friend had a detached retina and was told to shoot ducks with a gas operated semi 20 ga rather than a side by side . Seems his specialist was a duck shooter

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Had a large tear in my right eye retina due to cataract surgery 13 months ago which required laser surgery. Have given yup shooting heavier recoiling rifles as I do not want to go through that again (lots of floaters still due to torn blood vessel resulting from retina tear). For this reason I am considering having a .40 or .45 southern mountain rifle for target shooting, offhand practice, and up to deer hunting. It will probably have a swamped 42" to 45" barrel. I know the .40 would be no problem recoil wise, but not sure about the .45. Roundballs only. Any thoughts appreciated.

A .45 will do you well. I had a detached retina. I have no problem with recoil.

 

[Abe48]

A few years back I noticed many floaters and streaks in my right eye. My right eye retina (Shooting eye) detached. Had next day surgery to re-attach. As a result, had it detach again 2 days later! Had cataract surgery in both eyes. Now have "metamorphopsia" where the eyes don't talk to each other . Anyhow, I continue to shoot my .58's, rifles and pistol, plus .41 mag modern pistols with no distress to the eye. I feel you should have no trouble with a .50.

 

[SamTex1949]

I go along with what SDSmlf said, I was thinking same idea, but a couple pieces of 1X8 pine (or any other size) about an inch apart at shooting range, if the ball busts through both then it will work for hunting too.

 

[Whitworth]

Read an article by an Alaskan guide. He was shooting a 505 Gibbs and noticed a large muzzle flash. His shooting partner, who was an eye surgeon didn't see the flash. He told the guide to stop shooting as the recoil was causing his retina to detach temporarily .

Yes, flashes of light are a sign that things are detaching

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

The longer and heavier the barrel and gun, the less the recoil. But may be harder to shoot after 20 or more rounds.

 

[Art Caputo]

Some years ago I attended a driven pheasant shoot where I used a light, 12ga double in shirt sleeves. It was high volume shooting at all angles over a several hour period. That night on the way home I noticed continuous “flashes” thinking it was a passing vehicle…..but no other vehicles were in sight. Persisting for a few days, I went to the eye doctor. A small portion of my retina on my left eye had “peeled up”….partially detached. The flashes can be a symptom of a partially detached retina. The doctor said it may have a good chance of repairing itself, but I had to refrain from shooting heavy recoiling rifles/shotguns, and we would monitor it. Within a few months the flashes ceased and a check up proved it had healed up. That was about 6 years ago. I did return to shooting my rifles and shotguns, but being mindful of recoil management/high volume continuous shooting.

 

[Siringo]

Had a large tear in my right eye retina due to cataract surgery 13 months ago which required laser surgery. Have given yup shooting heavier recoiling rifles as I do not want to go through that again (lots of floaters still due to torn blood vessel resulting from retina tear). For this reason I am considering having a .40 or .45 southern mountain rifle for target shooting, offhand practice, and up to deer hunting. It will probably have a swamped 42" to 45" barrel. I know the .40 would be no problem recoil wise, but not sure about the .45. Roundballs only. Any thoughts appreciated.

I have 2 - Kibler SMR’s. One is a 45 and the other a 36. The 36 is new and I have just started shooting it. No recoil, but it has smoke and boom. The 45 is not as pleasant to shoot. For the following reasons:
1. It is lighter
2. The ball weight and powder charge are twice that of the 36.
3. Because of #2 above, it recoils significantly more that it is noticeable.
4. Because of the stock design, cheek rest and low sights, the comb of the 45 smacks ME in the cheek bone, but not so with the 36.
5. A higher sight set would alleviate #4.

I think the 40 would be a good choice!

 

[TrapperDude]

Both of my retinas detached a few years ago - I asked doctor if it was caused by shooting heavy rifles (.458 mag, 45-70, 45-90 in particular). He said he didn’t think these were the cause of my problem. Rather, he told me I had most of the causative factors for retina detachments - nearsighted since childhood, older white male, and cataract surgery in both eyes.

Rather than take a chance, I sold all my heavy recoiling rifles and the heaviest recoiling guns I shoot are 12 ga shotguns and up to 50 cal muzzleloaders. None of these bother me and my eyes don’t seem to be getting any worse. Your situation may be different and I would follow your doctor’s advice!

Your doctor is right on the money. Regarding that near-sightedness, people with myopia have eyeballs that are slightly too big, causing the light to focus before it hits the retina. That slightly over-sized eyeball condition creates thin edges around the retina, which is why they are more prone to detachment. Ask me where I learned about this, and you'll probably guess the answer correctly, by the way, not that it ever happened (*knock on wood*).

It takes an impact directly to the head to detach a retina. That detachment comes from differing inertia between the retina and the surrounding tissues, so when the head takes a blow, the retina accelerates at a different rate than the tissue to which it's attached. Think of putting something on top of a piece of paper and then yanking the paper out from under it very quickly.

When you shoot a rifle with a heavier recoil, your head doesn't get accelerated as it does from a punch. Your head will move on the neck, reducing the abruptness of the acceleration, cushioning everything inside of it.

 

[Jimbob]

Had a large tear in my right eye retina due to cataract surgery 13 months ago which required laser surgery. Have given yup shooting heavier recoiling rifles as I do not want to go through that again (lots of floaters still due to torn blood vessel resulting from retina tear). For this reason I am considering having a .40 or .45 southern mountain rifle for target shooting, offhand practice, and up to deer hunting. It will probably have a swamped 42" to 45" barrel. I know the .40 would be no problem recoil wise, but not sure about the .45. Roundballs only. Any thoughts appreciated.

I've had retina tears repaired in both eyes, cataract surgery both eyes. Been told by eye surgeons and optometrists that rifle recoil has nothing to do with retina tares. I regularly shoot 45 and 54 flintlocks in matches with PRB and 50 gr 3F. I have shot big rifles including a 416 Rigby since eye surgeries with no issues.

 

[flntlokr]

Had a large tear in my right eye retina due to cataract surgery 13 months ago which required laser surgery. Have given yup shooting heavier recoiling rifles as I do not want to go through that again (lots of floaters still due to torn blood vessel resulting from retina tear). For this reason I am considering having a .40 or .45 southern mountain rifle for target shooting, offhand practice, and up to deer hunting. It will probably have a swamped 42" to 45" barrel. I know the .40 would be no problem recoil wise, but not sure about the .45. Roundballs only. Any thoughts appreciated.

Personally, I would go for a .40 or .36, even loaded ridiculously they have little recoil. Don't take chances! Become a squirrel shooter. I love my .40.

 

[SDSmlf]

A stack of side on wet phone books tied together is ideal

Where does one find phone books now a days? Can’t honestly remember the last time I saw or used one, let alone had one dropped off at the house.

 

[oldwood]

Five shots from the bench with the .375 H and H Mag. used to give me a nasty sort of headache . Described it to a Doc. , and he said , that it was similar to Shaken Baby Syndrome. Got rid of .375 and 10 Ga. 3.5 " Mag. goose gun.

 

[DuncNZ]

Where does one find phone books now a days? Can’t honestly remember the last time I saw or used one, let alone had one dropped off at the house.

I guess I live in a different world

 

[SDSmlf]

I guess I live in a different world

Ok, just checked your profile and see you are in New Zealand. Same World, just a different part of it. About 8500 miles or 13,700 kilometers as the crow flies between us. Long walk.

 

[Dixie Flinter]

Some years ago I attended a driven pheasant shoot where I used a light, 12ga double in shirt sleeves. It was high volume shooting at all angles over a several hour period. That night on the way home I noticed continuous “flashes” thinking it was a passing vehicle…..but no other vehicles were in sight. Persisting for a few days, I went to the eye doctor. A small portion of my retina on my left eye had “peeled up”….partially detached. The flashes can be a symptom of a partially detached retina. The doctor said it may have a good chance of repairing itself, but I had to refrain from shooting heavy recoiling rifles/shotguns, and we would monitor it. Within a few months the flashes ceased and a check up proved it had healed up. That was about 6 years ago. I did return to shooting my rifles and shotguns, but being mindful of recoil management/high volume continuous shooting.