Revolver carry safety

[Greg Blackburn]

Hammer down on empty chamber. I've had a single action revolver's cylinder turn just enough for the hammer, which was down into a between-chamber-notch, to then rest against the base of a cartridge! I solved that by loading one less chamber and letting the hammer down onto that.

This occurred while carrying in a holster....I believe the holster was moulded incorrectly.

 

[B P Arn]

Find a manufacturer and sell 'em. Great, simple system. Polecat

Dale Lilly, if you are commenting on the retainer strap/thong device, that is not my invention. I copied it from the Tandy Leather book by Al Stolman.

All of my holster designs are just modifications of holster designs I have seen and liked.

 

[smoothshooter]

Why is the hammer down on an empty chamber any more safe then the hammer on a safety notch ?

On Colt-type revolvers, the hammer is lowered to where a narrow slot on the hammer nose engages one of the tiny pins located between the nipples. As long as the hammer nose slot is relatively clean, and the pin does not break off. this system works fairly well.
Lowering the hammer nose down on a nipple leading to an empty chamber locks the cylinder securely, preventing the cylinder inadvertently rotating around to bring a loaded chamber in alignment with the hammer.
The Remington has a better system, substituting deep notches between the chambers for the somewhat fragile and tiny pins the Colts use.

 

[brewer12345]

Wow, I never imagined that this would cause such a fracas. For the record, I would not be all that eager to carry a cap and ball revolver as a defensive weapon, although I have a funny feeling that a 44 cal hole in an assailant would be more than adequate to stop a threat. What I had in mind was as a coup de grace. We hunt jackrabbits in sagebrush prairie a lot and after they take some shot they frequently require a finishing shot at close range. I usually use an unmentionable for such purpose, but I was thinking it would be neat to use a 44 cap and ball. We walk a LOT on the trips, not uncommonly 8 to 10+ miles in a day and being the oaf that I am it is fairly common for me to stumble or even trip/fall. Hence my question about safety.

 

[Dale Lilly]

Dale Lilly, if you are commenting on the retainer strap/thong device, that is not my invention. I copied it from the Tandy Leather book by Al Stolman.View attachment 61020

All of my holster designs are just modifications of holster designs I have seen and liked.

Sorry about that. I am not a revolver guy [but I have a few] and have never seen the book or a holster like that. Dale

 

[Hawken]

Far better tools are available now.

Assuming one can get ammunition.

Believe it or not, in certain jurisdictions and foreign countries cartridge firearms, handguns in particular, it is virtually impossible (as well as prohibitively expensive) to acquire the necessary permits or whatever is necessary. "Antiques" are not subject to these restrictions and are one way around restrictions on handguns for many people and popular for this reason.

During the Unpleasantness last summer the percussion pistols were very nearly unobtanium, in part at least for the reasons described. They certainly wouldn't be my first choice either, but in the hands of a competent shooter they would be far better than no gun at all. Many if not most garden variety assailants and assorted low lifes won't be too choosy about what they are ventilated with, comes right down to it.

 

[SDSmlf]

The .06” diameter pins stick up .030” to .035” on Piettas and Uberti revolvers I have and have had. They are made from very soft steel and easily damaged. Learned from someone else that they do not hold the cylinder in place when holstering and in-holstering in tight leather. When I shot SASS with cap and ball pistols the pins got damaged all the time. When I stopped shooting SASS (you think there is drama in muzzleloading....) I swapped out my damaged cylinders to someone who had plugged the opening in the hammers on his guns (so the hammers wouldn’t pull caps) as part of another trade, but you can still see the damage on pins of my ‘good’ cylinder photographs. After some investigation determined that damage to pins appeared to be from cylinder over travel. The slots in the cylinders became peened by the bolt and the bolt was not fully entering the slot in the cylinder, allowing over travel, at least from what we could tell. Found it happened after only shooting a few full cylinders and ultimately made a tool to clean up cylinder pockets or slots after every shoot. No way would I load 6 and trust those pins on the cylinder to hold it in place in a real shooting environment or competition. In the basement or at the range, maybe.

 

[M. De Land]

Because the hammer is fully down on the nipple and it would take more of a movement of the hammer to rotate to the next chamber besides the hammer would have to clear the notch between chambers.

Sounds like a great theory , wonder if it has any bases in fact ?

 

[M. De Land]

Sounds like a great theory , wonder if it has any bases in fact ?

Here is what your missing. It takes precisely the same amount of hammer movement to the rear to line up the next chamber from the safety pin as it does from the empty chamber, also the caps cannot be dentonated from the side of the cone it must be impacted from the top so even if the pin did fail there is no danger of the cap detonation unless the hammer is fully retracted, the cylinder advance one ratchet tooth and hammer dropped on a live chamber from the top of the cone. A flap holster, hammer thong or even tight holser fit on the cylinder will prevent an accidental discharge.
No, the pin or notches ( if in good order) is every bit as safe as carrying on an empty chamber just as the designers intended.

 

[M. De Land]

Here is what your missing. It takes precisely the same amount of hammer movement to the rear to line up the next chamber from the safety pin as it does from the empty chamber, also the caps cannot be dentonated from the side of the cone it must be impacted from the top so even if the pin did fail there is no danger of the cap detonation unless the hammer is fully retracted, the cylinder advance one ratchet tooth and hammer dropped on a live chamber from the top of the cone. A flap holster, hammer thong or even tight holser fit on the cylinder will prevent an accidental discharge.
No, the pin or notch is every bit as safe as carrying on an empty chamber just as the designers intended.

Now if the pins or notchs are not in good order than the cylinder could be moved radially over a live chamber without hammer withdrawal as the bolt is not engaged while the hammer is on the pins or safety notches. In this case a blow to the rear of the hammer would detonate the cap on a live chamber.

 

[csaduck]

I think some here are thinking we carry our revolver as our main carry gun for personal safety, I am talking about how I have carried mine for over 50 years, fully loaded, but as my side arm during hunting.

 

[B P Arn]

^^^If the holster you are using does not have a hammer retainer or flap, the hammer could conceivably get fully cocked while going through brush, crawling on the ground, entering or exiting vehicles, a fall, or many other possible manners. A cocked revolver in a holster = no beuno.

 

[B P Arn]

That's a loading notch, not a safety.

 

[brewer12345]

^^^If the holster you are using does not have a hammer retainer or flap, the hammer could conceivably get fully cocked while going through brush, crawling on the ground, entering or exiting vehicles, a fall, or many other possible manners. A cocked revolver in a holster = no beuno.

In my case, we are talking about an 1858 (so notches) in a flap holster. Not much in the way of branches to worry about in sagebrush prairie (we navigate back to the truck by the landmark known as THE tree, singular), but plenty of jostling and possibly a thump as I stumble or fall over an unseen rabbit hole.

 

[Tanglefoot]

For whatever it's worth, when this child packs a cap `n ball wheel gun for sporting purposes, the hammer rests on an empty chamber. For example, when I'm hunting, or just out wandering the "back 40" where the undergrowth might harbor a venomous reptile, of which we have our share in this part of the Lone Star State. Five loaded chambers in a .44 ought to be sufficient for even our bodacious serpents. However, for current social purposes, I kind of prefer a more recent choice, though it also has a "4" in the title -- but I won't discuss that any further in this forum. I do like to avoid slow reloads when my personal health is in jeopardy.

 

[IROCZ]

The safest way to carry one I guess would be to load 4 chambers, put the hammer on the pin or safety notch between 2 empty chambers. Then place it in a 12" by 6" by 6" deep box and fill it with fast setting concrete. In 40 minutes to an hour, it will be perfectly safe to carry anywhere...

 

[Billy Boy]

Those notches just aren't safe.

Those notches just aren't safe.

The hammer has to be ‘fit’ to the notches on the New Model Army. Then there is sufficient purchase in the cylinder detent to actually lock it up. A full flap holster or hammer loop completes the setup.

 

[M. De Land]

That's a loading notch, not a safety.

The pins work as a loading notch on a five shooter but not on a six shooter. The designers intended them to be safety positions for full cylinder carry in my opinion.

 

[TNGhost]

PC (period correct) is the method I prefer over PC (politically correct).

Ain't nobody in the 1800's carried their revolver hammer down on an empty cylinder. Purely an invention of 20th century Nancies.

 

[TNGhost]

Wow, I never imagined that this would cause such a fracas. For the record, I would not be all that eager to carry a cap and ball revolver as a defensive weapon, although I have a funny feeling that a 44 cal hole in an assailant would be more than adequate to stop a threat. What I had in mind was as a coup de grace. We hunt jackrabbits in sagebrush prairie a lot and after they take some shot they frequently require a finishing shot at close range. I usually use an unmentionable for such purpose, but I was thinking it would be neat to use a 44 cap and ball. We walk a LOT on the trips, not uncommonly 8 to 10+ miles in a day and being the oaf that I am it is fairly common for me to stumble or even trip/fall. Hence my question about safety.

Ain't the first time around this barn here, and its always a barn burner.

For the record, there are few if any recorded instances of accidental discharges due to loading six in the period where these guns reigned, and no one was going to give an extra round advantage to the opposition.

The SASS boys invented this one because they have participants too stupid to shoot properly without hurting themselves. So rather than training/experience they went with "rules".

As far as the effectiveness of cap and ball revolvers? There are plenty of gravestones from the 1800s, and beyond to testify to that.

Very effective for what they were designed for, then and now.