ribbed trade gun thimbles, how to.

[fusil de chase]

Was wondering if there is a 'best' way to form the ribs in trade gun thimbles? My thought was to just whack them in with a blunt piece of steel or maybe a drill rod laid on the brass and the brass laying over a shallow groove in a piece of wood?

Any thoughts or pics of a "real" trade gun gun thimble would be appreciated.

 

[gunmaker43]

Huh !! pipes is it ? it's a mathematical problem for thinking people...Anneal a piece of brass about .030 or .040. cut to length of your design. Try to figure out how far it is around a .385 circle, add to that bout inch. Clamp a drill bit 1-2 sizes bigger than 3/8" in vice--if your makin a 3/8 pipe. bend stock round bit grab it with a pair pliers and squeeze the tabs tight to the mandrell. There you go. file purty if'n you want....Tom

 

[fusil de chase]

Tom, much thanks, I got making plain brass thimbles down pretty good it is the ribs that I see on trade gun thimbles that I was wondering about. No rocket science for sure I was just curious if anyone had a trick or method that works well.


BTW your explaination perfectly explained the process with about 5% of the words usually alloted to the instructions!

 

[Swamp Rat]

Don't think Tom knew what you trying to do. Think this is what your looking to make. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/827/1/RP-NW-F-6-B

 

[fusil de chase]

Yep that is it. It is the ribs that I am trying to form. Gonna try a few techniques tommorow and see what works,

 

[Birddog6]

I have tried that several times, and without perfected success. My attempts were to take a block of steel with a grooves cut into it. Lay the annealed brass across the grooves, lay 6 drill rods of same size opposing the grooves & put a plate of hardened steel over the bits & press them into the mold. This was successful & had 6 grooves into the brass plate. OK, I got the ribs.

First issue was keeping the drill rods Perfectly in place over the grooves so the press takes the rod into the groove. Got that figured out 2 ways. First was tape. Second was a wood block on each end retaining the rods precisely place same as the grooves. That worked well.

Next problem came when I pressed it into the round form, the ribs tend to flatten out some as I did this. It worked, but not as well as I would have liked. So the next idea was make a mandrel with ribs on it, then make a block opposite with clearance for the brass, for the round piece on the modified round mandrel & etc.

Well, I never got to that part, as I already had much more time into it than I could have taken a thicker piece of brass, formed the tube & filed of brass leaving the ribs. Bythe time I got tho this part, I realized I had worked 3-4 days figuring this out & making jigs & etc, I could have easily filed out a dozen of them by hand in a day.

Since it is not a pipe I would use allot, I didn't feel the effort was worth the time to make a forming mandrel & block & etc. to do this & continue making the jig.

But if you are like me & like lil jigs & such, it was something to try. I enjoy making the jigs as much as I do building rifles. But I tend to perfect ones that I will use allot & let the others go by the wayside.

Keith Lisle

PS: Actually 1st attempt was to punch the grooves into a grooved block, one groove at a time. This was time consuming, and the plate tends to warp as you make the next groove & as you proceed, it gets worse, thus why I tried pressing all 6 at once & ending up with a flat plate with grooves in it, prior to pressing it into a tube.

 

[DickS]

If you look at original pipes, there is a pattern to the ribs. I have formed them starting with annealed brass, an end grain block of wood, and tools like a cold chisel with a rounded edge. After forming the ribs, re-anneal the brass, and wrap around a suitable mandrel.

 

[Birddog6]

Well, I understand that & did that. But I was trying to find a way to press them & expedite my production of the pipes, rather than spend all day making 3-4 pipes.

My thoughts were to press out 24 plates, roll them, have them done & have them on hand. This is what I do with plain pipes for Tenn rifles. I have the molds made & mandrels & I can cut up plates, press them. In a few hours I can make enough RR pipes to do over a dozen rifles.

Keith Lisle

 

[razorbritches]

Kit Ravenshear put out the plans for a forming plate to make Ramrod pipes. Worked great, you could prolly make a couple dozen in an hour and a half. Made mine from a piece of angle iron so it could be held in a vise, worked great. I believe Track of the Wolf carries all of his pamphlets.

 

[Birddog6]

Oh that would be wayyyyyyyy to easy for me. :idunno: I always have to re-invent the wheel. :rotf: :rotf:

Keith Lisle

 

[gunmaker43]

For what you can buy them for, why bother. I do make faceted/filed pipes myself from brass/steel. To get those ribs IS a lot a work. Saw a fixture made by a 'chenest.. A flat plate he milled grooves in, another flat plate went on top with brass between 'em. the assembly then was rolled thru a home made roller/press. Turned out long strips of ribbed brass. Unless your makin' NW's for life--way more 'chen'en than I need ...Tom :surrender:

 

[fusil de chase]

Yeah I hear ya on the cost.
The thing is that I want all of the furniture to be made from the same brass stock. My current build has 3 diffrent brasses (is it a word) and for some reason it irks me. On this trade gun I want to "antique" it a bit and figure getting a believable patina would be easier if all the parts were made of the same material.

Back on topic. I played with it for an hour today and can definetly turn out the two pipes I need but it is not easy to get the grooves even.

 

[Birddog6]

Getting them exactly even is an issue in itself. Thus why I was attempting a to have a jig with precisely cut grooves, so all ridges were exactly spaced the same & exact same depth & exact same shape, etc.

Keith Lisle

 

[fusil de chase]

Yeah it sure looks ugly when they are not parallel and when they have little humps in the ribs.

Something I have not tried yet but which is on the possible list is to file lines into the brass before applying the cold chisel. Maybe it will help but those 2.99 store bought ones are looking cheap LOL.

 

[wmaser]

Here are two of the jigs that I made. They work very well in a heavy duty vice. a small vice doesn't have the umphh. I tried a hammer blow but it tends to tear through the brass sheet.


This is a shot of the pipe formed by the jig.

 

[Birddog6]

That is what I was making, but didn't have a milling machine to do so. I got the groove part right, then used drill rods on the other side, with a backing plate. I can't find the dang thing to show ya a photo, it is off in work bench never-never land..... Probably laying there enjoying the dust with 6-7 flys I have lost in past years.. :slap:

Keith Lisle

 

[wmaser]

The plates in the photo were made using an angle grinder and cutoff blade. After the initial cuts were made, they were trued up with files.

 

[Birddog6]

I didn't feel I could grind them that precise. So I put a soft plate against a hardened plate & drill the soft plate. This way I had pretty even holes going down each one & evenly distanced. Then I scribed a line down the edge of each one & took a chisel & trimmed each edge. Then filed them as evenly as I could.

What took me all day to do, a guy with a milling machine could have done in about 30 min. Take more time to set it up than to cut it. That is not counting the opposing plate to set up & make.

I should finish the thing, as I have a milling machine now. Well, it has sat in the shop ? 3 yrs & untouched... :idunno: Too many toys & not enough time to play with them all.......

Keith Lisle