Rifle and Wood Type Question?

[Erzulis boat]

I am trying to present my options for a potential build.
The wood in question is a stick of first growth genuine Honduras mahogany long enough for a fullstock. This is not the current run of the mill stuff, so it is very tight grained and strong.
I am not interested in an exact copy, but would like to be in the ballpark of authenticity.
What rifle or fowler etc. would this species be correct for?
Thanks-

 

:winking: Fowler I think. I have found fowlers in both walnut and some sort of open grain wood. fwiw

 

[Stumpkiller]

Honduras Mahogany?

Cries out for a boucaneer moosket.

 

[mikelange]

A fowler. Longrifles, as a general rule, were an American breed, stocked with native woods. I can envision an Englishman, well-travelled, having a fine fowler built of semi-exotic wood. Of course I expect to get hammered on this hypothesis, on the basis that such wasn't commonly done -- but at one time or another just about every type of wood was at least tried as a gunstock, and mahogany is far from the rarest of species. It's certainly been used for enough fine and not-so-fine furniture over the centuries, so the idea of a gunstock isn't too excessively far-fetched.

 

[Erzulis boat]

On that buccaneer moosket-
That has gorgeous lines!
Could you elaborate on barrel length etc. Would a 38" octagon/round/swamped Colerain be out of line?
Flat faced or round lock?
Would folks have used it as a fowler too?
Would it be out of line to mimic the buttstock shape, but tone down the curvature slightly, the blank is only 8" tall, or is that enough?

 

[gof]

Mike Brooks has built some beautiful Buccaneer muskets. I think that the historical ones have Giant barrels though... like 48" or so.

Can't wait to see it!

GoF

 

[Erzulis boat]

48 inches?!...........gulp.
Let me do the math here, firing line overhang at the rifle range...12 feet wide by 60 long...California Forestry Service code...at least 10 feet of clearing behind the slab......puts me square in the woodline!
:haha:

 

[Zonie]

There is little question that the British copied several American Fullstock rifles before and during the Revolutionary War.

With this idea to go on, and a willingness to create a rifle that "could have existed", I would think any stock pattern used in that era of time in America would be fair game. I personally would lean towards the Lancaster style as the straight comb is more in line with the British styles of the times. (ref the British fowlers).
The only thing I would strongly suggest is that the lock should be British with the round bottom pans, ala Durrs Egg, John Twigg, or one of the round face style.

Just a thought. :hmm:

 

[Erzulis boat]

On that thread, Zonie...
A "Lancaster" style typically does not have a lot of drop at the heel?
What about barrel length? This stick would give me about 38" of barrel to play with.
So maybe a straight comb (cheekpiece or no?), round faced Chambers lock perhaps?
What about triggerguard- single bow like a fowler?
This is starting to get interesting! :hmm:

 

[mikelange]

In Whisker's "Gunsmiths Of Lancaster County", there is a "London" marked longrifle that the author included to demonstrate the popularity of the Lancaster-made rifles. The gun is of visibly English styling (shell-motif relief carving around the breechplug tang, the shape of the comb nose, etc) but has fairly typical American rifle furniture -- so far as is visible in the photos that Mr. Whisker provides. So, yes, I would agree that a longrifle of strong English styling, using an English lock, could be built within the same parameters I suggested (world travelling Englishman having a fine gun built), using Erzulis' mahogany.

 

[Swampman]

If you stain it dark like walnut, no one will know it isn't.

 

[Erzulis boat]

This stick is an extremely figured fiddleback blank, that is a golden chestnut in color.
No stain here! :winking:

 

[Erzulis boat]

Just an initial thought..........

38" "B" profile .50 cal. Colerain barrel.

Round faced Chambers lock with molded edge.

Stock profile in the heavier set dimension echoing early "Lancaster".

Moderately bulbous ramrod pipes.

Sliding wooden patchbox with shell motif on front end.

Single trigger.

No nosecap, possibly a mild "Shnabbel" style.

Too far out of wack? Let me know!

I do feel that a Fowler would definitely be a safe build, but this English "Lancaster" could be one interesting pursuit. :hmm:

 

[Swampman]

I'd never build a gun without staining the wood.

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Erzulis boat,

Honduras Mahogany (also called Genuine Mahogany) is one of the most under-rated and unknown high quality woods around. Not to be confused the softer, very open grain Phillippe variety, Honduras Mahogny is close grained like good walnut, but not quite as heavy and very, very stable. Color if finished with a clear or oil finish tend to be reddish-brown, but like all wood
varies in color.

Dr Wood, who taught Advanced Cabinet Construction when I was at North Texas State University always said that among the professional woodworkers, Walnut and Honduras Mahogny were considered to be the Kings of Cabinet Woods

Several years back, I decided to restock my Unlimited Class Inl--- (I know , I know. That word is banned from this forum. I did not say it! I did not say it, merely hinted at it) Offhand Rifle. Since it is built on one of those actions we cannot mention, I decided it was appropriate to use a modern stock design like the Anschutz 22 rimfire target rifles. For this job, I used a good piece of Honduras Mahogny that I had laying around.

It finished up into everything I wanted. The lighter than Walnut weight changed the balance point and made a better holding offhand rifle.

While Honduras Mahogny may not be PC for a ML rifle, it does have its selective uses.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[Zonie]

No doubt that it would make a beautiful gun but the bulbous ramrod pipes, the schnabbel nose and the wooden patchbox does sound like it has a lot of German in it. Perhaps a throwback to the Jaeger style?

I don't see the shorter barrel you speak of driving your gun away from the sleek slender lines of the American longrifle towards the heavy Jaeger shapes. It just makes it a bit more of a challenge to keep it looking long and lean.

I'm probably wrong, but to my mind, the Mahogony just seems to shout out to all who see it of the World Sea power Great Britain was and of the worldly goods it was importing.

The use of a round bottom pan or round faced locks say Great Britain to me.

I would lean towards a typical brass patchbox. The gun Whisker has in his Lancaster book used a typical Daisy patchbox very similar to the typical 4 piece Lancaster patchbox.

Just a few thoughts on what might be done. Don't let me talk you out of, or into anything you wouldn't want.

 

[mikelange]

Were it me -- and it ain't, so take this merely as my humble opinion -- but, were it me, I'd keep the sliding wood patchbox (two very English rifles in RCA have them, including the Bullard rifle) with the shell carving. Echo the carving around the breechplug tang, perhaps the skirt of the entry thimble (remembering that your mahogany might be a tad bit softer than walnut, and prone to tearing if your tools aren't razor-sharp). Use military-style (i.e. brown bess) pipes, as English builders often did on non-military guns, or fowler-style. You might consider incorporating the swell in the stock at the entry thimble that earlier besses featured. I would lose the schnabel -- unless of course you like that feature, in which case by all means use it. But a brass or silver (most likely brass) nosecap would be correct, and help keep the lines of the forestock slender.

Sounds like a great project.

 

[Erzulis boat]

Thank You All..

I did some reading on the Lancaster, and have decided that I shall build one...but not of mahogany. There are too many features that can be incorporated and still be correct and decidedly American.
I will definitely be building something English, and stereotypical.
I happened upon the mahogany, and of course could not possibly pass it up.
It is a tad lighter than fine walnut, so a fowler might be in order. Unless I am mistaken, mahogany would be a legitimate stock wood for an English or Spanish birding gun (?).
I want my next build to be 100% plausible. I kind of free-wheeled it on Cherry, but I now want to follow a more disciplined route.
If indeed a fowler would fly (no pun intended) then I would greatly desire additional discussion.
I appreciate all the input, and will keep everyone posted.

 

[mikelange]

Not to hijack, here, but if you were building an earlier longrifle cherry isn't free-wheeling it at all. RCA features a number of possibly pre-Revolutionary rifles -- Pennsylvanias, not southern -- with cherry stocks. It is my opinion, and as such you and anyone else is free to disagree with this, that making it a rule to use only the most common materials, when there are numerous examples of original exceptions to that rule, is depriving oneself of the right to be an individual. I don't own a single curly-maple-stocked rifle, though I've built quite a few.

This isn't to say you shouldn't use curly maple, obviously, if the idea pleases you. It's certainly the "most" authentic, if such a thing is possible, and beautiful beyond compare. I only wanted to make the point that cherry is, also, a correct wood for an American rifle.

Keep us posted on the fowler idea.