Rifle from Sind

[rickystl]

Hello all. Now for something different. :haha:
This percussion rifle was made in Sind (Also known as Sindh) around the middle 19th Century. Sind is an area between India and Packistan. A real "camel gun". :haha: Complete with original sling and beaded decoration that was hanging on the sling. Actually, this gun is very well made coming from that part of the world. Very well made barrel, and lock internals almost equal to European standards. I'm currently in the process of cleaning the barrel. Surprisingly, very little surface rust. But lots of dirt and gunk from the last 150 years or so. Lots of JB Compound, brushes, solvents, and a ton of cleaning patches :shake: But, each dry patch looks better than the previous. So, I'll keep at it. The only mystery is the nipple. A musket cap is too large. A #11 too small. Hmmmm :idunno: I've been soaking the nipple area with a good penetrating fluid, waiting 2-3 days, and trying to get it out. Next I'll try heat. As you may have determined by now, I plan to shoot this gun. Very thick barrel walls and so far, the interior of the barrel looks good with no chips on the rifling I can detect. A more thourgh cleaning will tell. Now that the barrel is getting cleaner, the patches are not hanging up like they did at first. Any/all suggestions/recommendations appreciated. If I can get it done this fall I'll do a Range Report. Should be a blast. Meantime, enjoy the pics.
Specs: Stock: Rosewood from the Malbar Coast. Barrel: 36 3/4" long, swamped and flared at the muzzle, 1 3/8" breech, 1 1/16" at the muzzle, .42 cal. (mics .416), 7-groove rifling. Lock: Percussion, locally made - half and full cock positions. Weight of gun: 10-lbs. on the nose.

 

[commando223]

Wow now that is interesting. Great pics thanks for posting.

 

Ricky,
Not my thing but interesting non the less. Is the rifling at the muzzle cut that deep for decorative purposes or is it that way throughout the barrel? If it is cut that deeply all the way, how would you get a patch heavy enough to seal the gas from a shot? If it was to be shot.
Mark :idunno:

 

[rickystl]

Hi Mark. Good question. I still have more cleaning to do, but with a tiny bore light it appears to be cut that deep the length of the barrel. I've order both .400 and .410 balls. I'm going to take "strips" of different thickness of patching material and use the short end of a starter to punch it just in the muzzle end. That way I can pull it back out easily. It will definately require some experamintation. I don't plan on doing a lot of shooting with it. But it should be interesting. This was not made as a Tourist item. I even found small reminants of black powder on the face of the breech plug. I have a fairly good size collection of these guns and know the difference between the tourist items and the real thing. Even the lock inletting was very well executed. I'll post more pics of that soon. Thanks, Rick.

 

[Semisane]

Really neat Ricky. That rifling is just crazy. What were they thinking? Must have used very loose weave/fluffy patches.

Anyway, it would be a hoot to show up for a deer hunt with that one.

 

[rickystl]

I don't know what they were thinking making the rifling that deep? Maybe patching with thick "goat" leather? :rotf:
Even though the but stock is wide, it's very thin. See photo. I'm sure this butt stock design was used to carry on horseback or camels, or maybe even elaphants! :rotf: Actually, it cradles under your arm pit very comfortably.
Yes, there are a lot of strange designs and thinking from that part of the world. Rick.

 

[hrchotaw]

Holy crow!! I wonder if they made a fancy model :wink: Does that rifling look alot deeper because there is no crowning on the muzzle or what?Or maybe they did use animal hide.Either way its definetely an attention getter! :thumbsup:

 

[rickystl]

The barrel bands are engraved silver pinned with copper nails. Actually, I don't think the rifling is as deep as it looks. I just tried micing the groves and it seems to indicate about 6,000 deep. Of course, I need to pour a (forgot the correct name at the moment)to get an accurate reading, which I will have done. Rick.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Now that is what they call "round bottom rifling"! :bow: :bow: Before actually shooting it I would check out the patch on the stock!

 

[tom deinek]

Nifty ramrod

 

[hanshi]

A very fascinating piece of history. An op wad might be called for if that rifling is really that deep.

 

[poordevil]

Super cool!! You have found the VERY gun used to shoot Dr. Watson!! :blah:

 

[William O.]

Of course, I need to pour a (forgot the correct name at the moment)to get an accurate reading, which I will have done. Rick.

Do you mean that you're going to slug the barrel to get an accurate measurment?

 

[paulvallandigham]

You don't need to pour a test slug down the barrel to figure out its bore diameter.

Instead, use a .45 cal RB. Here's how.

FIRST: Get a length of BRASS ROD- probably 1/4" or possibly 3/8" in diameter, that will slide down that barrel. You want such a small diameter rod to be at least 1 foot long- to give it some weight.

SECOND: Oil that bore well.


Third: Put the rod down the barrel( Unloaded of course!) and then take a soft headed mallet or hammer and using light taps, hammer the oversized Soft Lead Bore into the muzzle. Use a short starter to move it below the muzzle, until it begins to move freely in the bore. The oil on the bore will help this process.

4th: Upend the barrel and shake that barrel up and down to make that brass rod hammer at the bottom of the 'slug' and knock it out the barrel. The rod will follow, so plan to have something soft- an old blanket, or pile of rags--- on which to have both the slug and the rod to land.

NOW, you can measure the bore diameter with a caliper or micrometer easily.

Sometimes, however you find an OLD barrel that is tapered almost its entire length. Its either by design, but most will be from years of wear, and neglect. The only way to know that bore diameter is to remove the breechplug, and run a slug through the entire barrel's length. :shocked2:

Seeing where that stock is broken, I would not want to fire it! I think I would just use it as a wall-hanger. Its certainly is a ' conversation piece'. :surrender: :thumbsup:

 

[reddog]

Of course, I need to pour a (forgot the correct name at the moment)to get an accurate reading, which I will have done. Rick.

Do you mean that you're going to slug the barrel to get an accurate measurment?

He probably means cerrosafe,

 

[reddog]

You don't need to pour a test slug down the barrel to figure out its bore diameter.

Instead, use a .45 cal RB. Here's how.

FIRST: Get a length of BRASS ROD- probably 1/4" or possibly 3/8" in diameter, that will slide down that barrel. You want such a small diameter rod to be at least 1 foot long- to give it some weight.

SECOND: Oil that bore well.


Third: Put the rod down the barrel( Unloaded of course!) and then take a soft headed mallet or hammer and using light taps, hammer the oversized Soft Lead Bore into the muzzle. Use a short starter to move it below the muzzle, until it begins to move freely in the bore. The oil on the bore will help this process.

4th: Upend the barrel and shake that barrel up and down to make that brass rod hammer at the bottom of the 'slug' and knock it out the barrel. The rod will follow, so plan to have something soft- an old blanket, or pile of rags--- on which to have both the slug and the rod to land.

NOW, you can measure the bore diameter with a caliper or micrometer easily.

Sometimes, however you find an OLD barrel that is tapered almost its entire length. Its either by design, but most will be from years of wear, and neglect. The only way to know that bore diameter is to remove the breechplug, and run a slug through the entire barrel's length. :shocked2:

Seeing where that stock is broken, I would not want to fire it! I think I would just use it as a wall-hanger. Its certainly is a ' conversation piece'. :surrender: :thumbsup:

That's the way I do it.
Only thing I might add is to put your cushioning material in a bucket or tub to keep the slug from skittering under the piano or something.

DAMHIKT.

 

[rickystl]

"Slug" that's it. Somehow I remember it by a different name. :idunno: Thanks.

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Paul. Great idea. I'll try that. Easy enough to do.
The but stock repair was done back in the period. In fact, it looks like the same gunsmith that made the gun. (?) I can see where it broke clean. The repair is very stout. If there is a way to make this thing shoot, I'm going to do it. I don't plan on taking it out in the field, but it would be fun to punch some holes in paper occassionally. Maybe 50-55 grains of FFF? But yes, I will have to keep in mind the thin butt stock. Thanks again, Rick.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Start with 35 grains of FFFg in that small bore( .40 cal?) rifle. Don't push it until you know the barrel is sound. I suspect the barrel is made of iron- not steel-- and you are asking a lot of a small bore barrel of that age, made of iron to be holding the pressure of 55 grains of FFFg. Work up slowly, at 25 yards off a bench, by 5 grain increments at most. Take the barrel out of the stock, to see if a hole was drilled down that "handle" at the wrist, and a wooden dowel or peg or BOLT has been run down, under the tang/barrel, into the wrist to hold that "repair" closed". If that hold repair is just horse hide glue, and those plates and tacks, I would hate to see it come apart on the first shot.

At the first signs that the pressure is getting too much for the gun- smoke or gas escaping around the breechplug, for instance-- STOP! :shocked2: :redface: :surrender:

Be Safe! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[rickystl]

Paul: Thanks for your additional comments and suggestions. I not only appreciate them, I will heed them. In fact, I will start by using a low charge of FFG, due to the lower pressure. But, yes, the barrel will come off and the breech area inspected. If all looks OK, I plan to shoot the barrel only - from a distance - and re-inspect. I have other Middle Eastern type guns I shoot. But these all were un-breached and re-installed with a modern steel liner by Bob Hoyt. Bob once told me he would never hesitate to tell a customer that a specific barrel should not be used under any circumstances. I will have him inspect this barrel as well. So far the cleaning and a drop light in the bore is showing some crisp twist rifling. Actually, nicer than I expected. Some measuring shows a long breech plug, which is not unusual for these guns. But yes, I will use every safety precaution. If this project is successful, it will be interesting to see what kind of accuracy the rifling produces. Thanks again, Rick.