Rifle Period Question

[Trench]

I guess I was thinking along these lines.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/251462/[/quote]

At least in that rifles case, it was in some kind of use in to the percussion era. But, as a professional trapper/hunter, would you take a rifle made around 1740 out west with you in 1820?

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Maybe not a professional trapper, but one of the raw recruits hired by the fur companies. It seems plausible that a well made heirloom rifle could be preferable to buying something new. I mean, I shoot 120 y/o rolling block rifles that are as solid and reliable as their modern counterparts. :thumbsup: Once again, just pondering possibilities. I think having a persona that is a recent German immigrant hired by a fur company and armed with a sturdy Jaeger would not be completely out of place at a rendezvous. Or that disgraced English gentry with his Mortimer. :grin:

 

[rich pierce]

Big Sky, you might as well get the sort of gun you want, accept that it represents something undocumented but technically plausible, and get down to having a good time with it. You don't really need "forum affirmation" to have a good time.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

You don't really need "forum affirmation".

Rich, you have said it all. :thumbsup:

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Not necessarily saying I want a Jaeger OR a Mortimer. :wink: Generally I like longrifles, particularly Southern Mountain styles. I spent over twenty years as a professional archaeologist - dealing with early 18th to late 19th century sites all over the country, as well as shipwrecks of the same periods. Many sites were well documented, but you always found more things in the ground contradicting the documentation than affirming it. :idunno: My post is primarily intended to get folks thinking about what is possible, not just what is documented.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

N My post is primarily intended to get folks thinking about what is possible, not just what is documented.

I would guess this thread needs to be moved to the historically accurate forum then?

A gun as you describe could be possible but it would not be representative. Big difference in creating a personna to roam the woods and fields or go to a "vous" than develping one to interpret to the public.
For the former, have fun with whatever you choose and for the latter it would be best to let it slide.

Your post brings up another point to consider..It would be interesting to know how many recent German immigrants of the time made the voyage over with their own firearms.

 

[KHickam]

Just saying I am no where near the horse man the mountain men were - although I spend a good deal of time in the saddle - I found that once you figured out the trick - a long gun is no more cumbersome than a short gun.

BTW - There have been many changes I'm sure to the flora and fauna along the Grand and Missouri rivers but I found that with few exceptions negotiating the terrain on horse with a long gun was no problem.

Cody - my horse - is a handsome devil for 17 yrs old.
:thumbsup:

 

[rich pierce]

Generalization: Immigrants were generally poor folks coming here where their labor would be worth more and where they could afford land. That is, they were laregely unlanded peasants and workmen and therefore did not have arms, since hunting privileges were usually restricted to landed gentry in Europe.

Regarding the premise that a company-hired early fur trapper in the west took a jaeger or Mortimer rifle with him up the Missouri: As my Uncle Harold used to say when someone persisted in pressing a point he found unconvincing, "Could be."

 

[tg]

Genearly speaking the more of a "story" one needs to make something work the less plausible it becomes and for reenacting it is what is documentable not what is possible that usually sets the standards, most folks do not put much time into thinking what might have been possible but focus on what can be proved to have been a reallity, other wise one has defeated the purpose of the whole idea.

 

[Dphar]

I agree with you there, Dan. I prefer rifles myownself. I have just been kicking around for the heck of it what kind of atypical rifle a man might have taken to the West. That is why I mentioned Jaeger (German immigrant) and Mortimer (disgraced English gentleman gone West). Admittedly, this is purely an intellectual exercise, but with the scant documentation on guns of the era, I think it a worthwhile exercise.

Use a 1790-1800 English Sporting rifle and simply claimed you liked the rifle so you killed the original owner and took it.
There were a lot of "not nice people" on the frontier in all eras so this would fit right in. Would also give you his horse(s) and tack and clothing if it fit. This an easy way to justify having a rifle etc nicer than your supposed income would allow

The problem is that most of the English rifles AND most European rifles had a fast twist (26" barrel 1:26 twist very common) and would not always shoot a large enough charge of powder to be as useful over unknown ranges as an American rifle would be.
If you were shackled with something like the 13 bore that Forsythe had that would not shoot over 1 3/4 drams of powder without stripping the patch it would be a real PITA.
This rifle had an 11" mid-range to 100 yards. Useless for sporting purposes.
So be careful what you wish for.

Dan

 

[BigSkyRambler]

Hmmm, all very compelling. Still, I have always been a big fan of anomalies and the atypical. Had not thought about the twist factor. How about surplus military rifles? Seems a 1792 Contract Rifle or Model 1803 would fit right in. No doubt a good story could be built around that.

 

[Rod Lassey]

An 1803 Harper's Ferry rifle might be much more plausible. I don't have the book handy, but there's a quote in Russel's "Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountainmen" concerning a military commander (Ft. Atkinson? Ft. Leavenworth? I can't remember) sending a letter to his superiors about selling off his unit's 1803's, they having been replaced with the M1817 rifle. This was around 1825, as I recall.

Worth looking into, the 1803 is a nice handling rifle.


Rod

 

[bangfxr]

If it was at Ft Leavenworth you could contact the historical society at that post and they can point you in the right direction or they may know about that story. Remember that is an active military post and the historical folks are there Tues-Sat, That was the days when I visited couple years ago.