RIFLE TWISTS

BTW according to John H. ... Bill Large states that the Hawken Brothers barrels were in fact on average 1:48 twist, generally 12-14 thous deep, square cut rifling, 7 groove, equal width lands and grooves. :hmm:

According to John, according to Bill... Isn't that third-hand info?

What's the deal with not only posting John's photos, but also speaking for him?

What is going on here?

This is starting to look like a ventriloquist forum! :haha:

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Mwindy,

I hope this is not a "beat John's targets" contest. I asure you that was/is not my intention.

410-er posted a request to see targets defining the accuracy that some members claim. I simply responded to that; nothing more, nothing less.

I also believe that one target does not tell the whole story, so I posted several to show that one target is not the exception. It was not to brag, but to show what be done with the correctly rifled barrel.

It is the barrel that is all important to shooting a PRB accurately. Everything else just holds the barrel. That is the reason GM barrels are so popular as drop-ins for certain Thompson-Center rifle models.

Some think I have no respect for the T-C's, but that is not true. I hold them in the highest regards, My disagreement is with claims of accuracy with the standard shallow groove 1-48 rifling twist.

Mr Stumpkiller is going to conduct some test in the future with his T-C Renegade and hopefully determine the validity of certain claims, Whatever he determines, I will respect.

It is true that many T-C shooters are quite happy with 50 yard, 2" groups for hunting, and I will, as always, respect their views and objectives

I also believe, that contrary to the protestations of some of the forum members, they would shoot excedingly well with my rifles. It need also be said here that the only way I can afford my rifles is to build them myself. I have never been able to have even one custom crafted for me.

From the 8th grade through college, my education was structered to courses that would teach me manufacturing principles that would aid in the manufacture of firearms. Ending up as a Technology Teacher was an accident, but allowed me to work with students who were more than willing to get involved in trying new ideas in crafting muzzle loading rifles (for themselves of course).

That might also possibly explain some of the reasons for the level of whatever success I enjoy with the ML Rifle.

For the next two months, I will be doing quite a bit of ML shooting in preparation for the 2006 TMLRA CHAMPIONSHIPS.

With the help of Davy and Fred, I will post more targets, including the no-so-good ones, and try to explain why a particular target went South. Most of the time a target goes South because of the finger on the trigger.

None of the current targets or the future targets are meant to start any kind of "beat John's targets" contest, ALTHOUGH, I have no doubt there are ML Forum members who can.

If, on the other hand, the targets define the accuracy that can be expected out of a properly barrelled ML, then that is a worthwhile endeavor, and a possible goal for the interested to achieve.

With that said, be reminded that in June and October each year, I shoot with a large group of gentlemen who are better than me, and prove it by beating up on me. They allow me to win just enough trinkets to keep me coming back in order to extract match fees and membership dues from me.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

If you are not an NRA Member, why not? I am carrying your load.

 

[Halftail]

Great shooting John!
I'll be the first to admit I can't shoot that good all the time with 1:48 or 1:66.
Do YOU weigh or cull you balls?Or,do YOU just shoot them as they come?

 

[davy]

According to John, according to Bill... Isn't that third-hand info?

What's the deal with not only posting John's photos, but also speaking for him?

What is going on here?

This is starting to look like a ventriloquist forum! :haha:

Ok Dale ... the fact is I was talking to John last nite on the phone and that discussion came up, so there! :nono: :grin:

John is a friend of mine and I do not make excuses for that .. I am proud of the fact ...

I am no vent-ril.. who! :hmm: fer nobody amigo!

And to clarify ...if I choose to comment on something told me, then I wll exercise my rites hyar, and I will continue to do so ... thankie very mucho compadre! Iffin folks here did not pass on info learned from where-ever .. then not much would go on here I am afeered! :yakyak:

All due repesct Dale ... no offense taken BTW by your less than generous comment! :thumbsup:

Davy

 

[faw3]

And your low man on the pole at Brady... :rotf: :rotf: I cant wait to see how the real good shooters are ( I may just hide and run out those naked girls and such to distract you while Davy has a go. :rotf: thanks John. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[davy]

And your low man on the pole at Brady... :rotf: :rotf: I cant wait to see how the real good shooters are ( I may just hide and run out those naked girls and such to distract you while Davy has a go. :rotf: thanks John. Fred :hatsoff:

I need more than dancin gurlies ta save me out there! :shake: :redface: As the reverend says in the Searchers .. "gentlemins ... we must go amongst em!" :shocked2:

Davy

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

No Dale. I am very, very far away from being the best.

And I speak only under my name.

Davy posted my targets (and other things) because I do not have the technical expertise or equipment to do so.

As a matter of fact, it was neccessary for me to first go to another friend to scan my targets and then Email them to Davy for posting.

Davy is one of the few people, I consider to be a true friend. I am enriched by his friendship.



John L. Hinnant

 

[marwat06]

Greetings Mwindy,

I hope this is not a "beat John's targets" contest. I asure you that was/is not my intention.

410-er posted a request to see targets defining the accuracy that some members claim. I simply responded to that; nothing more, nothing less.

John;

I didn't take it that way or that you were posting for that reason. I was just trying to bring this back to the subject of the barrel twist. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

I would love to see a few targets shot with my Scout by John :thumbsup:

Of course it is a Story rifle but I bet he has shot one or two..

I love the fact we have plenty of experts out here, it makes the site well worth our while.

 

[***Sean***]

Good shooting John

I have a TC Hawken .54 Cal.I have no idea what twist I have. Any ideas?

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Sean,

I sent you a PM.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings Halftail and Pittsburghunter,

I will answer your questions as soon a I can. The day has been a bit fatiquing, and I am headed off to the bed.

Just did not want you to think I was ignoring you.

Best regards and good shooting,

John L. Hinnant

 

[faw3]

Sorry if you dont care for John upping my scores from his advice on what to do to shoot better. I dont think I or John have to apolgize to anyone for anything. Fan club not really, but "I" think its great that someone thats spent years getting as good as he is takes time to share how to do it! Most great shooters keep how they do it to them selfs Ive found FRED :hatsoff:

 

Damn, I should hava had a teacher like you Mr. H.! I really enjoy the input on this forum from you. I've certainly picked up on a few things.

PS: I've never heard of H.E. Resly barrels. Could you please fill me in on them when you get the chance. Thanks.

Jeff

 

[gmww]

According to John, according to Bill... Isn't that third-hand info?

What's the deal with not only posting John's photos, but also speaking for him?

What is going on here?

This is starting to look like a ventriloquist forum! :haha:

I won't speak for the rest but I will often mention the source of my information that I've posted. Over the years I've seen challenges from other posters about information being presented.

As a result of being one of those who has been challenged about information I've posted, I mention my source. Most of the time it is from a book. It tends to limit those annoying challenges from the nay sayers (sp?). You will see here that others are posting their sources also.

The days of taking a person at his words are long gone due to the abuses of a few who post less than accurate information. Anyways, this is a thread on rifle twists and Mr. Hinnant has a track history of good information.

:thumbsup:

 

[gmww]

I keep reading about how the 1:60" twist is a roundball twist. The odd thing is in my 1:60" underhammer, maxi-balls seem to do well. In fact it does better than my 1:48" twist Pedersoli and Investarms barrels. And roundballs do well in all my guns.

I understand the concept of twist rates and stability of a bullet but you'd think the maxi-ball would not do very well in the slower twist barrel. :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

I think thats how all this got going. Ya we can shoot slugs ot of slow twist, I think its because of the deep grove short body on the bullet being used ... I shoot a 54 with a short maxie and it works great, 1x66 twist, but if I try the same thing out of the 451 1x20 twist VOL it goes all over the place, it likes those long 1 1/4" things.all the Deer Creeks are 012 deep, like the H+As FRED :hatsoff:

 

[gmww]

Hey Fred that brings up a follow up question. If the shallow grooves are causing less accuracy does that mean the connicals are not engraving and spinning? I've recovered a few of my conicals in the past in the 1:48" and they seem to be engraving fine. Needless to say it is a confusing situation. I wonder if there might be other explanations? :thumbsup:

 

[faw3]

If they are the ones you made or about as short you dont have a lot touching the rifleing, but Ive said long time you can shoot cons out of slow twist, TILL I got on here months ago and got converted to shooting just balls :rotf: Have a good day . Im going to :snore: a while. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[strongarm]

1 to 48 is considered midway between fast and slow twist. Fast is considered anything under 1 in 40. And anything above 1 in 60 is considered slow.