Rifled Liner Added To SxS

[nkbj]

Is adding a rifled liner to one barrel in a side by side feasible? In a single barrel arm sure it's not uncommon. Will it work in a double without taking the barrels apart for the installation?

 

[jdkerstetter]

The simple answer is yes. There's a thread going on in Gunbuilding on this very thing right now. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[nkbj]

Peachy! Maybe someone with the know how will tell us how.

 

[jdkerstetter]

The how isn't the hard part. The hard part is getting a liner made that will fit in the barrel that will still be a caliber that is desirable.

The bore should be concentric for it's full length, i.e. not choked. The breech plug is removed and the bore measured at both ends. A barrel longer than the bore is machined so that fits tightly in the bore. The liner is either epoxied or soldered in place so that will be up against the breech plug on one end and is flush with the end of the barrel on the other.

Problem is that most guys won't make a liner with thin walls so you end up with a small caliber rifle next to a shotgun barrel. Not a problem for centerfires and their high velocity little pills. For a muzzleloader it might be a desirable squirrel or turkey getter but the gun will not balance very well with all that weight on one side.

Good luck and enjoy, J.D.

 

[theoldredneck]

How thin could a liner be made for black powder pressuers? I'm lookin at this now as a project. A .452 groove diameter barrel of modern cartridge steel is being considered. I would turn it for the liner. Cut the breech plug threads deeper in the shot gun barrel that is to be lined. Thread the breech plug end of the barrel so it could be indexed when glassed in. Was looking at making a smaller gauge barrel liner foe the other shotgun barrel to balance weight

 

[varsity07840]

The how isn't the hard part. The hard part is getting a liner made that will fit in the barrel that will still be a caliber that is desirable.

The bore should be concentric for it's full length, i.e. not choked. The breech plug is removed and the bore measured at both ends. A barrel longer than the bore is machined so that fits tightly in the bore. The liner is either epoxied or soldered in place so that will be up against the breech plug on one end and is flush with the end of the barrel on the other.

Problem is that most guys won't make a liner with thin walls so you end up with a small caliber rifle next to a shotgun barrel. Not a problem for centerfires and their high velocity little pills. For a muzzleloader it might be a desirable squirrel or turkey getter but the gun will not balance very well with all that weight on one side.

Good luck and enjoy, J.D.

Bob Hoyt would proably do it. He relined a .69 cal original 1816 flint for me. Pretty thin at the muzzle.

Duane

 

[jdkerstetter]

How thin could a liner be made for black powder pressuers?

I'm no barrel maker and count on those with years of experience to make those decisions for me. Sorry.

....Cut the breech plug threads deeper in the shot gun barrel that is to be lined.

Why? What kind of breeching does the gun have now?

Thread the breech plug end of the barrel so it could be indexed when glassed in.

I don't get what your saying here. My understanding of barrel regulation when I have seen it done, was that it was done from the muzzle end before the barrels were permanently joined. If the liner is fixed in one barrel, and the two barrels are fixed together, how does threading the breech end of the lined barrel allow adjustment. I'm not getting it or something.

Now, adjustable sights might be the answer.

Was looking at making a smaller gauge barrel liner foe the other shotgun barrel to balance weight

Sounds like you are going to have an awful muzzle heavy gun there when she's finished. You may have to do as Pedersoli does on the Kodiak and put a lead counterweight in the but so the gun will balance.

I look forward to your response. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[theoldredneck]

By turning the barrel so the bore is a little off center on the muzzle end and being threaded on the breech end it can be turned and indexed to point with the other barrel. I can get it close enough to work with. The breech plug end would be fitted so the barreel and plug are butted together. Because the shotgun barrels are soft soldered the liner would be glassed in. Lining the other barrel with a thin liner from a smaller gauge shouldn't add tbat much extra weight.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Off center bore I get. It would almost have to be or the gun would be shooting pretty far off center at long range regulated to the same distance as shotgun barrels. Regulate and then rebreech to the new liner, OK.

I understand regulating SxS shotguns and rifles as each barrel is shooting the same load and you want them to hit the same point of aim at a known distance. But regulating a rifle barrel to a shotgun barrel seams odd to me when the effective range of each is so dramatically different. Am I missing something? What range would you regulate to?

Also, is this a gun that is being modified or one that's being built? Is it flint or percussion? I know, more questions than answers. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Supercracker]

A few weeks ago I spoke with Hoyt about doing this very thing. I have a set of really gorgeous orignal 16 ga damascus shotgun barrels I want to use for a DR project in the future. He seemed to feel that he could fit a pair of .58 liners into them but did say that he needed to see them to say for sure. Definitely a .54. I have them soaking in penetrating oil right now to get the original plugs out.

He said he uses an industrial locking compound made by, I think, Loctite. It went liquid at something like 500deg. He gave me a very affordable quote also. I would call him. Or, it might be more effective to write him a snail mail letter. He stays super busy.

 

[Supercracker]

But regulating a rifle barrel to a shotgun barrel seams odd to me when the effective range of each is so dramatically different.

FWIW, the original German Cape guns {one smooth and one rifled barrel} I've messed with had the sights set to the rifle POI and had no relation to the shotgun barrel at all.

 

[jdkerstetter]

That's what makes the most sense to me too. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[theoldredneck]

I would like the rifle to hit point of aim between 50 and 100 yards. Would like the smooth bore barrel with patch round ball to be close at 40 to 60. Shot should fly in same general direction. A 54/28 ga for the smooth would be fine with me. Good thing about being retired is having time to do it the way you want. Also looking at barrels being between 24" and 27".

 

[jdkerstetter]

I'll be interesting in seeing your results. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[theoldredneck]

A 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone will usually break anything loose. Don't get it on wood or some plastics. Works better than kroil for barrels that have been there a life time or two.

 

[John Taylor]

T.J.'s makes a few muzzle loader liners in 45 cal and 50 cal. The 45 is 5/8" OD and the 50s are 11/16". He also makes air gun barrels. He sent me a sample of a 58 cal. barrel but I think the rifling would be a little shallow for patched round ball.(859-635-5560)

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Was looking at making a smaller gauge barrel liner foe the other shotgun barrel to balance weight

I don't don't see the necessity. For one thing, that will just make the barrels that much heavier. There are lots of combinations extant, both original and modern, like .40x16ga or .50x12ga, where the exterior diameters are similar and the rifle barrel just has appropriately thicker walls. Lateral balance does not seem to be a significant consideration.

Regards,
Joel

 

[theoldredneck]

Thanks, the shotgun barrel could just be left as a .12 guage. Also will check with him on his liners before I turn one. Thank you both for your advice. It is always better to listen and learn from those with more knowledge and experience. Saves time money and headaches in the long run.

 

[theoldredneck]

Talked to Mr. Sayers, of T.J.'s today and he gave me a short list of liners he makes. Pulled the breech plugs again on the double to remeasure everything when I get time. Hope to order a liner before weekend. Thanks for the info on the liners and this gentleman. Should this project go as well as expected he will be my source for liners.