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Rifling in Remington M1863

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Egil

32 Cal.
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Sep 14, 2005
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Hello.
I have a question to Civil War veterans :wink: .
My friend claims that Remongton M1863 Contract Rifle (so called Zouave) had a rifling with progress in depth. Could it be the truth?
I know they were good but rather cheap rifles without any technical fireworks.
 
Although I cant say for SURE they did I know the Springfield did and seeing as how Remington made those guns for the government to shoot the minie ball I am sure it did. That is if we are talking about the original ones. The Italian made repros do not however you can have drop in barrels made with that type rifling.
 
Did that take the form of a smaller bore diameter at the muzzle or a larger groove diameter at the muzzle?
 
GoodCheer said:
Did that take the form of a smaller bore diameter at the muzzle or a larger groove diameter at the muzzle?

The Springfield pattern barrels were rifled with a uniform twist, one turn in six feet (1 in 72") with progressive depth rifling. Three grooves, rounded and equal to the lands in width, .015 inch at the breech tapering to .005 inch at the muzzle. The land diameter was the same the entire length. However, it was decided that the short rifle (33 inch barrel) should be rifled at one turn in four feet (1 in 48"), all other specs being the same.

Most likely, Remington rifled the "Zouave" in accordance to Ordnance Dept. specifications. I don't have the information included in the contract with me to verify it. One would need to examine a Remington barrel to see what they really did.
 
I have an original Remington M.1863 Contract Rifle (aka Zouave). It has seven groove rifling with a twist rate of 1:60". I just checked with my copy of 'The Rifled Musket' by Claud E. Fuller & he confirms these measurements on pg. 252;

The total length of the arm without bayonet is four feet, one inch. Length of the .58-calibre barrel is two feet, nine inches. The rifling consists of seven narrow, shallow, segmental grooves having a pitch of one turn in five feet. Weight without bayonet is nine pounds & six ounces.

There is no mention of progressive twist rifling.
 
Don't know but the one I have is just as described by the K Ranger. I checked it years ago and it seems to be correct. I also know when it comes to Civil War Rifles the K Ranger always seems to be dead on. :thumbsup:
 
Are you asking about the actual Remington 1863 Contract rifles or the modern Italian made reproduction?

Of course I mean the original rifle, not Italian repro. So, it seems the friend is right.
 
So there you have it. At least one Zouave with rifling following Ordnance Dept. specs and another with a totally different type. I believe Remington made top quality arms for the government, however the Zouave was an oddball. Some say it was the best designed rifle of the War, and it was a good weapon, but it was also a conglomeration. Stock, buttplate, triggerguard and sights of M1855 pattern, barrel bands like those on the M1863 Type II (M1864) and barrel and lock from the M1841. The patchbox found on these is like the one found on the M1855 rifle-muskets after 1859.

I was thinking that perhaps the Zouave described above with seven grooves may have been barreled with a M1841 barrel. In 1845, Remington took over a contract for 5,000 M1841 rifles defaulted by John Griffiths. They received another contract for 7,500 rifles shortly afterward and in 1851 another contract for 5,000 more of the same model. Remington was tooled up for this barrel. If I read my "Small Arms 1856" book right, the regulation M1841 Rifle had seven groove rifling, since the testing officers stated that they wanted to reduce the number of grooves to either three or five and making them shallower. So, The above mentioned seven groove barrel, if .54 cal. would be a leftover from probably the 1851 contract. If it is .58 cal., I'd say it is a good possibility that Remington used the seven groove rifling guide for some of the barrels of the 1862 Zouave contract. As I write, I see in Gluckman's book that Zouaves have been found with barrels with the standard three wide grooves and barrels with seven narrow grooves at 1 turn in 5 feet. So either would be correct. We can only ask the questions, when did they change and why?
 
The K Ranger to the rescue again. Thanks for that very fine in depth answer. A copy of this will go into to my gun file. Thx :thumbsup:
 
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