Rifling questions

[deadin]

Is there a name for this type of rifling?
What are its advantages/disadvantages?
Thin patch/thick patch?

 

[wiscoaster]

I can't answer your first question, but to me it looks ideal for a lubed paper-patched ball like I've been experimenting with:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...all-tail-up-or-tail-down.182056/#post-2645161

 

[rich pierce]

That would be tough to load with a patched ball.

 

[wiscoaster]

That would be tough to load with a patched ball.

Depends mostly on the size of the ball, not so much the patch, no? I tried various papers for patching the same ball, with little difference in loading.

 

[deadin]

Land to land is app. .294.

 

[rich pierce]

Depends mostly on the size of the ball, not so much the patch, no? I tried various papers for patching the same ball, with little difference in loading.

Good point. With a .100 ball it would go pretty easy. Just kidding!

I was thinking “load and get acceptable accuracy”. My concern is getting no engraving of those incredibly wide lands on the patched ball. I can’t see how to get the ball to spin.

 

[deadin]

Pure lead, lot of lube, no patch?? Enough upset to take to the narrow grooves?
The barrel is from a Ohio Half Stock Sporting Rifle.

 

[wiscoaster]

Good point. With a .100 ball it would go pretty easy. Just kidding!

.....I can’t see how to get the ball to spin.

The patch gets the ball to spin. If the patch is compressed into the grooves upon loading, and at the same time compresses against the ball, it forms a gas seal, so then the powder ignition and gas expansion further compresses the patch into the grooves and against the ball, and then the ball has no option due to compression and friction but to rotate with the grooves as it travels down the barrel.

 

[Antelope Pete]

That's what most bores looked back in the day.......wide lands and narrow grooves, just the opposite as today.

 

[rich pierce]

The patch gets the ball to spin. If the patch is compressed into the grooves upon loading, and at the same time compresses against the ball, it forms a gas seal, so then the powder ignition and gas expansion further compresses the patch into the grooves and against the ball, and then the ball has no option due to compression and friction but to rotate with the grooves as it travels down the barrel.

I understand how rifling works, and have found that all my rifles shoot best with ball/patch combinations that result in the weave of the cloth imprinting on the ball. In other words, tight enough to deform the ball as it is loaded. If this is a .29 caliber, it appears the grooves are quite narrow indeed. Much more narrow and the lands proportionately much wider than most 1850s barrels. We can speculate further, but I’d prefer a range test of different ball/patch combinations and targets shown.

 

[wiscoaster]

.... but I’d prefer a range test of different ball/patch combinations and targets shown.

Well, I understand you'd prefer more definitive and visually representative results, but I did try as you requested and reported here:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...did-you-do-today.134755/page-744#post-2646256
So sorry I forgot to take my iPad and so have no pics to show representative results.

 

[rich pierce]

Well, I understand you'd prefer more definitive and visually representative results, but I did try as you requested and reported here:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...did-you-do-today.134755/page-744#post-2646256
So sorry I forgot to take my iPad and so have no pics to show representative results.

This doesn’t appear to be targets from the above barrel. Kibler guns I’ve seen have narrow lands and wide grooves. I’m totally confused now. Over and out.

 

[Phil Coffins]

I would be curious to see what the rifling looks like down inside the barrel. The muzzle may have been coned then these grooves were filed in not representing the rifling of the bore. Many muzzles were filed in a manner different than the bore, some rather extreme.

 

[deadin]

I would be curious to see what the rifling looks like down inside the barrel. The muzzle may have been coned then these grooves were filed in not representing the rifling of the bore. Many muzzles were filed in a manner different than the bore, some rather extreme.

Here;s a couple, one near the muzzle and one near the breech; (Some bad scaling in the bore but I haven't started working on it yet)
Looks to me that the narrow grooves go all the way down.

 

[deadin]

I would be curious to see what the rifling looks like down inside the barrel. The muzzle may have been coned then these grooves were filed in not representing the rifling of the bore. Many muzzles were filed in a manner different than the bore, some rather extreme.

Something like this?

 

[Phil Coffins]

Yep.

 

[deadin]

When was this type of muzzle treatment in style?
I ask because I have an 1858 Remington C&B that has been extensively converted to 44 Colt (or 44 Remington) at some time in its life.
I'm curious just how long ago as those cartridges have been obsolete for some time...

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Lots of different ways rifling was done.
The grooves on your barrel were filed out to the crown. This was commonly done. Some folks call it coning, but it's not.
Load your rifle with a thinner patch 0.010 and see how it work: it should shoot just fine

 

[Sam squanch]

I’m curious to see HOW this thing turns out! I guess it was easier to pull a very narrow cutter by hand through the barrel than a wide one? Please post targets!