Rose Damascus Dueling Pistol Set

[Milehighviking]

Hello Everyone,

I’ve been an avid gun collector for years that is now just taking a leap of faith into a subject matter I do not know much about. I’m looking to make my first purchase as I have found a really nice set of dueling pistols with barrels that are rifled and unscrew. The barrels also seem to be made of rose Damascus steel. I cannot find any engraving as to manufacture. The only marking on it I can’t make out. Sorry that I’m no help at all. I have included pictures I have taken so maybe someone on here can help this rookie out please. Thanks a lot for taking the time to look at my post.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So what you have there is not a pair of dueling pistols. Paired pistols were not always for duels, and by the caplock era these would be too small.

They are a pair of gentleman's self-defense pocket pistols. Screw barrels work by removing the barrel and filling the chamber, then placing a ball over the opening to the chamber to seal the chamber, and finally screwing down the barrel. The ball is then forced onto the rifling when the pistol is fired, swaging it onto the rifling and giving it pretty good accuracy, BUT as you can see there are no sights on the pistols so they are meant for "up close and personal use", not dueling at 20 paces, etc. This action by the ball when fired allows a split second for pressure to increase, and so such pistols generally were know to hit very hard and be quite lethal.

The pistols have no trigger guards and the triggers will go flush with the action because they are intended for a pocket on a coat or waistcoat. The triggers will engage and remain deployed when the pistol is at full cock, and there are two pistols because a proper gentleman would not trust his life to a single pistol incase of a misfire, AND..., shoot an assailant once, and his partners can see there is a second pistol in the other hand, OR if the first shot doesn't quite knock down a lone assailant, you have a second shot for the coup de grâce.

LD

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
As LD wrote, they are not dueling pistols. Moreover, the case is a later addition and not particularly of very high quality. I suspect the pistols are inexpensive Belgian exports from the mid 19th century.

dave

 

[Milehighviking]

Hi,
As LD wrote, they are not dueling pistols. Moreover, the case is a later addition and not particularly of very high quality. I suspect the pistols are inexpensive Belgian exports from the mid 19th century.

dave

So even though they are made of rose Damascus steel you would say that they are inexpensive? Just wondering as I’m considering buying them but don’t want to purchase a knockoff of sorts or reproduction.

Hi,
As LD wrote, they are not dueling pistols. Moreover, the case is a later addition and not particularly of very high quality. I suspect the pistols are inexpensive Belgian exports from the mid 19th century.

dave

Thanks for your input as well.

 

[Milehighviking]

So what you have there is not a pair of dueling pistols. Paired pistols were not always for duels, and by the caplock era these would be too small.

They are a pair of gentleman's self-defense pocket pistols. Screw barrels work by removing the barrel and filling the chamber, then placing a ball over the opening to the chamber to seal the chamber, and finally screwing down the barrel. The ball is then forced onto the rifling when the pistol is fired, swaging it onto the rifling and giving it pretty good accuracy, BUT as you can see there are no sights on the pistols so they are meant for "up close and personal use", not dueling at 20 paces, etc. This action by the ball when fired allows a split second for pressure to increase, and so such pistols generally were know to hit very hard and be quite lethal.

The pistols have no trigger guards and the triggers will go flush with the action because they are intended for a pocket on a coat or waistcoat. The triggers will engage and remain deployed when the pistol is at full cock, and there are two pistols because a proper gentleman would not trust his life to a single pistol incase of a misfire, AND..., shoot an assailant once, and his partners can see there is a second pistol in the other hand, OR if the first shot doesn't quite knock down a lone assailant, you have a second shot for the coup de grâce.

LD

I really appreciate your very informative answer. You’ve put my far along in my search as to what they are. So Thanks a lot!!

 

[Milehighviking]

So what you have there is not a pair of dueling pistols. Paired pistols were not always for duels, and by the caplock era these would be too small.

They are a pair of gentleman's self-defense pocket pistols. Screw barrels work by removing the barrel and filling the chamber, then placing a ball over the opening to the chamber to seal the chamber, and finally screwing down the barrel. The ball is then forced onto the rifling when the pistol is fired, swaging it onto the rifling and giving it pretty good accuracy, BUT as you can see there are no sights on the pistols so they are meant for "up close and personal use", not dueling at 20 paces, etc. This action by the ball when fired allows a split second for pressure to increase, and so such pistols generally were know to hit very hard and be quite lethal.

The pistols have no trigger guards and the triggers will go flush with the action because they are intended for a pocket on a coat or waistcoat. The triggers will engage and remain deployed when the pistol is at full cock, and there are two pistols because a proper gentleman would not trust his life to a single pistol incase of a misfire, AND..., shoot an assailant once, and his partners can see there is a second pistol in the other hand, OR if the first shot doesn't quite knock down a lone assailant, you have a second shot for the coup de grâce.

LD

Is there a particular term used to describe these types of self defense guns?

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Yes, they are called "turn off" or "screw barrel" pocket pistols. They were made to carry in the pocket not in a traveling case. Belgian makers turned out thousands of pattern welded barrels and put them on all manner of guns from expensive first class to relatively inexpensive guns made for the trade or to sell in hardware stores. Indeed, on these guns the barrel blank for a more expensive arm may have been longer than needed so they used the cut off sections to make the pistols. The engraving is the give away about quality. It is not particularly fine.

dave

 

[fleener]

If you are really wanting a cased set of dueling pistols there are quite a few that always pop up on auctions. I have always wanted a set and so I bought them a few year ago. Shot them both and they were very accurate and a hoot to shoot.

Now they are simply displayed in our 4 seasons room. Lucky that my wife is very tolerant.

Fleener

 

[fleener]

I have seen some Greener and RIgby sets that I would love to own, however they came with a very large price tag.

Fleener

 

[RMFnLA]

Is there a particular term used to describe these types of self defense guns?

They are the “Saturday Night Specials” of their day, Europe’s answer to Henry Deringer.

 

[docholl]

AGREE with all above. Unless these are relatively inexpensive, price wise, I'd pass and save your money for something of better quality.

This is a set of German made dueling pistols. They are $3K.

 

[Milehighviking]

I have seen some Greener and RIgby sets that I would love to own, however they came with a very large price tag.

Fleener

Yes. The prices sure do get out of hand fairly quick when you want quality!!

 

[Rancocas]

You have your answer from all the above. Definitely NOT dueling pistols.
In general, real dueling pistols were smoothbores, usually in the .50 - .56 (decimal system - I was never taught metric) caliber range, and usually without a rear sight. Similar to dueling pistols are the target pistols which do have rifled barrels and full sights. Of course, this is not to say that target pistols were never used to fight a duel. But you know that just wouldn't be sporting, old chap.

 

[Rudyard]

Hi,
As LD wrote, they are not dueling pistols. Moreover, the case is a later addition and not particularly of very high quality. I suspect the pistols are inexpensive Belgian exports from the mid 19th century.

dave

They look fine to me quality wise . They look Nice to me pocket pistols not dueling. But hardly 'Saturday night special's ' Nor would I rate the Derringer shewn as one ."
Hotter than a Two dollar pistol"! They would be your 'Saturday night Special's '.
Rudyard's view

 

[RMFnLA]

They look fine to me quality wise . They look Nice to me pocket pistols not dueling. But hardly 'Saturday night special's ' Nor would I rate the Derringer shewn as one ."
Hotter than a Two dollar pistol"! They would be your 'Saturday night Special's '.
Rudyard's view

That wasn’t meant as a slam.

Saturday Night Special as in a hide-out gun, not a POS.

Not sure how many really cheap guns were available back then since they all were hand-made.

BTW, the Deringer shown is mine; check my avatar.

 

[cynthialee]

agree with all the above
self defense pair of pocket pistols

Nice case, nifty little pistols and old. But the case is not proper to the era or the station of a man who might have owned such pistols. Also the one pistol that has the trigger showing is a red flag that something is busted inside. Those triggers sit snug inside the pistol when the hammer isn't cocked and they should only pop out when the hammer is cocked. The mold looks about right but it also looks newer than the pistols. The powder flask is not right, Germans from back then favored ornate wood flasks with a triangle type shape, or for a poorer man a hard leather flask that tended to be roundish. Original case set should have more tools, cleaning, for the nipples, ball puller and such and none of those things are there.

Someone took a pair of spiffy guns and made a presentation case, which does have some value in its own right, but I wouldn't pop down top dollar for this set.

 

[Rudyard]

That wasn’t meant as a slam.

Saturday Night Special as in a hide-out gun, not a POS.

Not sure how many really cheap guns were available back then since they all were hand-made.

BTW, the Deringer shown is mine; check my avatar.

Dear RMF No idea what' a slam' means, Your Deringer I wasn't calling a 'Saturday night special rather a fine pistol as apposed to the cheap & nasty presumed' Saturday night 'item the' two dollar pistol' I refer to . The original posters pistols look good to me Ditto your Deringer. There where a LOT of rudely made cheap pistols could be called S N ' Special 'or' Miners pistols' way below the standards even Dave considers poor . I think the posters pistols warrants a kinder appraisal . or Ime no judge of such guns and I've seen enough & made enough to be a fair judge of quality.
Rudyard

 

[RMFnLA]

Dear RMF No idea what' a slam' means, Your Deringer I wasn't calling a 'Saturday night special rather a fine pistol as apposed to the cheap & nasty presumed' Saturday night 'item the' two dollar pistol' I refer to . The original posters pistols look good to me Ditto your Deringer. There where a LOT of rudely made cheap pistols could be called S N ' Special 'or' Miners pistols' way below the standards even Dave considers poor . I think the posters pistols warrants a kinder appraisal . or Ime no judge of such guns and I've seen enough & made enough to be a fair judge of quality.
Rudyard

Fair enough.