Round ball and blood trails

[oldschoolhunter55]

I haven't taken my Hawken out deer hunting yet, but after speaking for a few people I have a question about blood trails. A friend who is a fanatical deer hunter in PA will only use conicals while deer hunting with his muzzleloader because of a lack of blood trails. I didn't give his opinion much thought; but after speaking with two guys who run deer retrieval dogs, one in NJ and another in NY, they both stated that they've had several retrievals where a round ball left zero to no blood trail even though it was a well placed fatal shot. Just curious about other peoples experiences.

Thanks.

Im going to be honest. Ive had good blood trails and some had none.there are so many varibles in when the shot was taken. What was the deer shot with.how high in the tree stand the hunter was.was the hunter on the ground.where did the shot hit.how soon did the excited hunter start looking. And also different times of the day when looking for blood. There is so many things to consider in answering this question. And also how much experience does the hunter have. Ive learned so much through the years of hunting and i still see things that i cant explain when trailing deer now.

 

[beagle74]

Following blood trails can be so intense. You can't help but learn something from every experience.

 

[Bushfire]

 

[stikshooter]

You punch a 50 cal hole thru their lungs and they ain’t going far. Ball or bullet shouldn’t make much difference. Unless you’re unlucky or make a bad hit.

Shot was exactly where it was supposed to be ,like I said and that profile as described was lung hit at rear of lung with no blood on new snow . I now shoot Lyman Great Plains 54 and the last few on snow went feet and lay down ,one @ 136yds I watched after shot go down and sat close to a hour (did not want to spook it ) . Up and down 3 different beds but never moved 20 feet , the snow on that one attracted ravens (a HUGE blood bath ) and that is typical with big chunks of lead . I can tell you've never shot deer or anything else with a big conical and if it's less than ideal shot I want a conical every time , my deer don't always pose @ 50 yds broadside and wait for the trigger pull . I save my RB shots for squirrels as deer are hard to come by where I hunt and I have 3 freezers to keep full and have the garden for side dishes and being a meat eater I kill stuff not harvesting .Ed

 

[Stykbow]

Shot was exactly where it was supposed to be ,like I said and that profile as described was lung hit at rear of lung with no blood on new snow . I now shoot Lyman Great Plains 54 and the last few on snow went feet and lay down ,one @ 136yds I watched after shot go down and sat close to a hour (did not want to spook it ) . Up and down 3 different beds but never moved 20 feet , the snow on that one attracted ravens (a HUGE blood bath ) and that is typical with big chunks of lead . I can tell you've never shot deer or anything else with a big conical and if it's less than ideal shot I want a conical every time , my deer don't always pose @ 50 yds broadside and wait for the trigger pull . I save my RB shots for squirrels as deer are hard to come by where I hunt and I have 3 freezers to keep full and have the garden for side dishes and being a meat eater I kill stuff not harvesting .Ed

First, my comment wasn’t directed at you. It was a general comment on the topic at hand. Not sure why you took it so personally, but since you took it that way let me make it that way so you’re not disappointed. By your response I can tell you can’t stand it when someone is different than you.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Broad side /quartering coming or goin a conical (pure) tends to get a exit more often hence better blood trails at more yardage ,I prove it every year ! I can keep my 54/50 cal in 1/2 a 9 inch plate @190 yds (our short range ) with conicals

Yes I'd agree IF you're going beyond 100 yards, especially if you are shooting beyond 150 you should be using a conical due to the advantages with ballistic coefficient. At 190 yards with my load and sighting distance, my round ball is hitting the earth before 190 yards.

LD

 

[stikshooter]

First, my comment wasn’t directed at you. It was a general comment on the topic at hand. Not sure why you took it so personally, but since you took it that way let me make it that way so you’re not disappointed. By your response I can tell you can’t stand it when someone is different than you.

And your wrong again ! My other handle is stikshooter/35 yrs of instinctive shootin . You go your way and I'll go mine but my arrows get more penetration usually more blood and less noise than your RB . When you mentioned not a lot of difference is when I call BS, of course it's not even close . We don't always get to get the deer posing at the right angle/right yardage or walking /standing or maybe an obstruction you don't see but when we pull the trigger (WE) will most definitely have different results .I've done both and like I stated a big chunk of lead gets it done faster/further /and at more angles with less wounded lost deer /your mileage is for sure different than mine but don't for a sec think you know what I can or not stand for, like I said you'd be wrong/Ed

 

[Stykbow]

@stikshooter I am not saying that the conicals you like are not effective. I just don’t think they are necessary. A deer hit with anything can get away. Those suckers are a lot tougher than most people think. I don’t have to kill a deer to survive. Hunting is something I need to do in order to be who I am. My family can eat a couple of deer per year, but most years I just kill one because I won’t take a low percentage shot simply so I can tell everybody I killed “X” number of deer. If I needed them to survive I’d be shooting them with a centerfire rifle and not playing around with a side hammer ML.

 

[Daveboone]

Most of my round balls flatten out quickly and do not exit....54 or .50 cal, max. 35 yards or so. Most run a short distance (heart shot/ double lung) and collapse. I disregard the comments in the original post about retrieval dog use, etc. Obviously those are poor hits to start with, indicating poor placement and/or poor tracking/follow up.

 

[stikshooter]

@stikshooter I am not saying that the conicals you like are not effective. I just don’t think they are necessary. A deer hit with anything can get away. Those suckers are a lot tougher than most people think. I don’t have to kill a deer to survive. Hunting is something I need to do in order to be who I am. My family can eat a couple of deer per year, but most years I just kill one because I won’t take a low percentage shot simply so I can tell everybody I killed “X” number of deer. If I needed them to survive I’d be shooting them with a centerfire rifle and not playing around with a side hammer ML.

Only point was the conical is more effective @ more yardage than a RB ,and you said otherwise . You or anyone else will never hear me mention numbers but my daughters grew up eating deer not beef and 30+ yrs hunting with stik bows legally in 3 different states PA /NY and NJ and still donated meat to neighbors . Kids or neighbors never wanted for meat ! Muzzys came later (exclusively) and still have 3 freezer's for deer never got tired of eating deer thanks to multiple tags /Ed

 

[waksupi]

The thing missing, is tracking skills. A deer will generally leave a bit of blood sign, even if only a few drops, or cut hair. When you can't find drops of blood or hair anymore, the dear is usually dead within thirty yards of you. The generally start a circle to the right at this point. Sometimes they will be laying in plain sight, but will still get overlooked, as they blend into the forest duff quite well.

 

[Sam squanch]

I used to tell my hunters after they shot something,,,,,, let’s wait an hour. If it is dead, it will still be dead in an hour

In some areas that results in a stolen deer.

 

[stikshooter]

The thing missing, is tracking skills. A deer will generally leave a bit of blood sign, even if only a few drops, or cut hair. When you can't find drops of blood or hair anymore, the dear is usually dead within thirty yards of you. The generally start a circle to the right at this point. Sometimes they will be laying in plain sight, but will still get overlooked, as they blend into the forest duff quite well.

I've found most all deer ever shot with bow (4-5per year in 3 states)and at least one a buddy shot in Jersey with buckshot and lost a couple more over nite with coyotes . But if it comes down to tracking it ain't all about tracking skills ,it's position of deer when hit/moving before arrow gets there or stuff in the way of bullet not noticed . I have spent most of a day on hands/knees and loose the deer after hitting a road surface/posted , some things just happen beyond yours or my control but make no mistake when you generalize about blood trails (you'd be wrong ) most of the time/Ed

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

I've found most all deer ever shot with bow (4-5per year in 3 states)and at least one a buddy shot in Jersey with buckshot and lost a couple more over nite with coyotes . But if it comes down to tracking it ain't all about tracking skills ,it's position of deer when hit/moving before arrow gets there or stuff in the way of bullet not noticed . I have spent most of a day on hands/knees and loose the deer after hitting a road surface/posted , some things just happen beyond yours or my control but make no mistake when you generalize about blood trails (you'd be wrong ) most of the time/Ed

I know exactly what u saying. There is so much that goes on and can happen.ive been on a lot of blood trailing adventures and helped a lot of fellow hunters.i learn or at least try to learn something every time i go.a few times ive had to just grab hold of a deer and it is very dangerous to just grab them. Try to have a knife with me at all times but ive lost a few knives on the way and it gets very interesting just to grab one bare handed and yes ive been injured a few times. A lot of places that i hunt is around housing developments and a firearm at 300 in the morning is a nono.police will be called. Some of them are understanding and others are not. Hope everyone has a great and safe hunting season this year.

 

[waksupi]

I've found most all deer ever shot with bow (4-5per year in 3 states)and at least one a buddy shot in Jersey with buckshot and lost a couple more over nite with coyotes . But if it comes down to tracking it ain't all about tracking skills ,it's position of deer when hit/moving before arrow gets there or stuff in the way of bullet not noticed . I have spent most of a day on hands/knees and loose the deer after hitting a road surface/posted , some things just happen beyond yours or my control but make no mistake when you generalize about blood trails (you'd be wrong ) most of the time/Ed

I know things can stretch on tracking. I hit a deer with an arrow right at sunset one evening, with light rain starting to fall. It took me 17 hours to find it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

will only use conicals while deer hunting with his muzzleloader because of a lack of blood trails.

He is under a delusion about conical/round making, or not making a good blood trail. Seemingly identical hits can produce different results. I once had a book of extensive trials the FBI did with modern guns on live sheep that documented just that. However, the deer I have killed were all with a round ball and none went far after being hit. The key is proper placement. If done right there is little to no tracking necessary. However, it is also true I probably passed up several opportunities because I was not certain I could put that ball right where it would do the most good.