Round Ball performance story and question

[Mike in FL]

Never used a conical and a .50 PRB has never let me down. Always a pass thru. Except a shot I never should have taken: a large broadside bucks at 50 yards that simply would not give me a lung shot. Finally I had a clear shot of his neck. He ran spewing blood onto the snow on both sides of his tracks. Never found him, the only one I didn't recover. I learned never take a neck shot. That was the same season I was hunting for Hunters for the Hungry. With that same flintlock .50, PRB, I killed six other deer shot through behind the shoulder. I don't believe heavy charges with PRB are helpful. .

 

[hanshi]

I've killed more than my share of deer with muzzleloaders; no, just can't be "more" than my share!? I've never hunted with anything other than prb and not because I didn't want to use conicals. It was just because they worked so well I needed nothing else.

I've killed deer with prb in .45, .50, .54 and .60; the vast majority with the .45. Distances ranged from maybe 3-4 yards up to 100 (+ or -). Initially I used too much powder; 80 grns in the .45 and 100 grns in the .50. I no longer hunt but my deer loads were long ago reduced to 70 grns for both the .45, .50, .60 and 60 grns in the .54. Thankfully never lost a deer nor needed more than the one shot. Farthest shot with a .45 was right at 75 yards with full penetration. The farthest shots were one hundred yards & change with two different .50s, and again full penetration. I'd guess the average shot to have been around 30 yards.

With soft lead ball the primary, but not the only, factor in penetration is velocity. Up close, say under 35 to 40 yards full penetration is unusual and the ball is often found under the far side skin well flattened out. With smaller powder charges and/or greater distances ball expansion is often less dramatic or absent. The most impressive blood trail was from a large 8 pointer hit with a .45 prb. The shot was around 25 yds at an angle as he turned to walk directly away in front of my stand. He ran off in a stagger and I heard him fall. He left a trail with blood waist high on some of the shrubbery. The ball was again flattened just under the off side skin behind the shoulder.

I used the .50 a lot but a .45 was normally what I grabbed as I walked out the door. The .45s accounted for a suitable number of DRTs as did the .50s. I've never hunted bears but wouldn't hesitate using a .45 if I ever did. In my experience the round patched ball is terminally and awesomely lethal on deer size game and performs with aplomb from a .45 bore.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I don't fault the 45 hunters and surely not the 50 hunters. Most of my deer kills have been with 50 PRB. And I don't think we all need to move up to bigger bores....... but I have.

I know it’s an unmentionable but my 450/400 400 gr at 2250ft sec will drop buff and elephant , not will , it did just that a year before I bought it 2011 I love all .400 guns old or new. Time to stoke up your little smoke pipe

I only commented as I won two moulds , eBay uk a Pedrosoli at 610gr a buffalo stoping bullet And a 460gr Lee mould Both are .577 and cost me £33 each Why because I have a 577 percussion big game rifle

Ps. More pleased with the Lee mould , that’s the little one , yes very good .

 

[Bucks Co]

The first Red Deer (a big Hind) I harvested with a Muzzleloader was with my second rifle; range about 50 yards- a Numrich Barreled Half stock - 90gr of FFg and a patched .440 ball the ball entered mid chest, penetrated through to the off- side the ball lodging just under the skin; she ran about 50 Yards and was stone dead when I found her. The last was a spiker - Red at about 15 feet; again a 45 but a Douglas barreled rifle - same load though. It died on the spot the ball going clean through. I always felt the 45 was just a bit on the light side for NZ Red Deer - a thought echoed by my late friend Brian Scott he switched up to a 50 and never looked back - most Deer he got usually expired on the spot. I now have a 50 Hawken, my son has claimed my 54 Pedersoli Tryon and I've a 58 Leman on the bench. Just need to get in the hills!

 

[longcruise]

This isn't posted in response to any other posts above or anywhere on the internet for that matter

In references to projectiles found under the skin on the opposite side, this seems to suggest that the projectile ran out of steam at that point and simply stopped. But, that's not the case. The skin on the far side acts as a highly elastic net. Kind of like a trampoline. It catches the projectile by stretching out and stopping it and then snapping back. There was a video on u tube (which probably isn't there anymore) that shows a deer facing the camera and hit from the side by a rifle. Probably a suppository gun. The skin on the side opposite the impact stretches out a over a foot. Much wider than the width of the deer and then snaps back holding the bullet.

So, understand that finding the ball or bullet under the skin isn't an Indication that your load was barely adequate.

 

[borealedc]

Well guys, I got it done. Black bear down from a 490 patched round ball, pushed by 80 grains FFg. I got great terminal results. I put it behind the shoulder at about 10 yards, hunting from a self-made ground blind. He was getting a bit too close for comfort. The bear ran a short 20 yards or so and expired all within a minute or two. Granted, this was a smaller bear than I anticipated but I was proud to get one down with a traditional rifle.

I recovered the ball and can post pictures of that as well if interested. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Hermit Tim]

Good job and thanks for sharing. I'd love to hunt black bear some day. We allegedly don't have them in my area anymore but I've seen two cubs back in 17 and 18. Back in December of 17 I shot a small buck. Had the flu while I was processing it so, instead of fleshing the hide right then, I just put it up high so the yotes and wolves couldn't get it. Next day that hide was gone and there was a big pile of bear poop next to my truck. And another by the patio behind the house. Hoping to run into him some day. Congrats on a good hunt.

 

[Hermit Tim]

That's a sweet rifle, by the way.

 

[borealedc]

Good job and thanks for sharing. I'd love to hunt black bear some day. We allegedly don't have them in my area anymore but I've seen two cubs back in 17 and 18. Back in December of 17 I shot a small buck. Had the flu while I was processing it so, instead of fleshing the hide right then, I just put it up high so the yotes and wolves couldn't get it. Next day that hide was gone and there was a big pile of bear poop next to my truck. And another by the patio behind the house. Hoping to run into him some day. Congrats on a good hunt.

Thanks! I woulda thought there'd be a lot of bears in Tennessee. Black bears have been in strong growth for many years across Canada and the US. Hopefully you get your opportunity soon!

 

[ETipp]

Well guys, I got it done. Black bear down from a 490 patched round ball, pushed by 80 grains FFg. I got great terminal results. I put it behind the shoulder at about 10 yards, hunting from a self-made ground blind. He was getting a bit too close for comfort. The bear ran a short 20 yards or so and expired all within a minute or two. Granted, this was a smaller bear than I anticipated but I was proud to get one down with a traditional rifle.

I recovered the ball and can post pictures of that as well if interested. Thanks for the advice!

Good job!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I've killed more than my share of deer with muzzleloaders; no, just can't be "more" than my share!? I've never hunted with anything other than prb and not because I didn't want to use conicals. It was just because they worked so well I needed nothing else.

I've killed deer with prb in .45, .50, .54 and .60; the vast majority with the .45. Distances ranged from maybe 3-4 yards up to 100 (+ or -). Initially I used too much powder; 80 grns in the .45 and 100 grns in the .50. I no longer hunt but my deer loads were long ago reduced to 70 grns for both the .45, .50, .60 and 60 grns in the .54. Thankfully never lost a deer nor needed more than the one shot. Farthest shot with a .45 was right at 75 yards with full penetration. The farthest shots were one hundred yards & change with two different .50s, and again full penetration. I'd guess the average shot to have been around 30 yards.

With soft lead ball the primary, but not the only, factor in penetration is velocity. Up close, say under 35 to 40 yards full penetration is unusual and the ball is often found under the far side skin well flattened out. With smaller powder charges and/or greater distances ball expansion is often less dramatic or absent. The most impressive blood trail was from a large 8 pointer hit with a .45 prb. The shot was around 25 yds at an angle as he turned to walk directly away in front of my stand. He ran off in a stagger and I heard him fall. He left a trail with blood waist high on some of the shrubbery. The ball was again flattened just under the off side skin behind the shoulder.

I used the .50 a lot but a .45 was normally what I grabbed as I walked out the door. The .45s accounted for a suitable number of DRTs as did the .50s. I've never hunted bears but wouldn't hesitate using a .45 if I ever did. In my experience the round patched ball is terminally and awesomely lethal on deer size game and performs with aplomb from a .45 bore.

The first Red Deer (a big Hind) I harvested with a Muzzleloader was with my second rifle; range about 50 yards- a Numrich Barreled Half stock - 90gr of FFg and a patched .440 ball the ball entered mid chest, penetrated through to the off- side the ball lodging just under the skin; she ran about 50 Yards and was stone dead when I found her. The last was a spiker - Red at about 15 feet; again a 45 but a Douglas barreled rifle - same load though. It died on the spot the ball going clean through. I always felt the 45 was just a bit on the light side for NZ Red Deer - a thought echoed by my late friend Brian Scott he switched up to a 50 and never looked back - most Deer he got usually expired on the spot. I now have a 50 Hawken, my son has claimed my 54 Pedersoli Tryon and I've a 58 Leman on the bench. Just need to get in the hills!

Good job!

Yes a nice winter coat and tasty burgers , I love bears but they love to eat you. I saw TV uk “ mountain men”. I see they extended the bow hunting season to reduce bear numbers as they were eating too many elk calves.

No bears in uk. But they are in the mountains of Europe . Seems they are not hunted ?????? Reading the french and others don’t hunt with muzzle loaders
My 1972. Home made jager , the wire inlay is silver solder , patch box imitation, wood oak, .625 bore 1/38” twist using a twisted 3/8” square rod Flint action later 1810 east India stronger lock pattern , amazing sparks .
Sunny day west of London from where we wish you all well

As they say happy to meet, sorry to part, but happy to meet again.

Love from ul to you all

 

[Bigpete]

This isn't posted in response to any other posts above or anywhere on the internet for that matter

In references to projectiles found under the skin on the opposite side, this seems to suggest that the projectile ran out of steam at that point and simply stopped. But, that's not the case. The skin on the far side acts as a highly elastic net. Kind of like a trampoline. It catches the projectile by stretching out and stopping it and then snapping back. There was a video on u tube (which probably isn't there anymore) that shows a deer facing the camera and hit from the side by a rifle. Probably a suppository gun. The skin on the side opposite the impact stretches out a over a foot. Much wider than the width of the deer and then snaps back holding the bullet.

So, understand that finding the ball or bullet under the skin isn't an Indication that your load was barely adequate.

100% correct !

 

[SeaBee133]

Thanks! I woulda thought there'd be a lot of bears in Tennessee. Black bears have been in strong growth for many years across Canada and the US. Hopefully you get your opportunity soon!

Several on the news out of Memphis over the last decade. I know they are in Shelby Forest State Park, as are small sounders of feral hogs. As the crow flies, we’re about 18 miles east of the big ditch (MS River). Have something destroying nurse logs in our seasonal wetlands. The game dept swears we don’t have bears in west TN.

 

[Hermit Tim]

Several on the news out of Memphis over the last decade. I know they are in Shelby Forest State Park, as are small sounders of feral hogs. As the crow flies, we’re about 18 miles east of the big ditch (MS River). Have something destroying nurse logs in our seasonal wetlands. The game dept swears we don’t have bears in west TN.

We had one at our place here in Giles county, TN back in 2017. No bears around here. This one pooped in my yard several times. Stole a deer hide I had hanging. I saw it watching me late in the evening a couple times and, the next year, saw a little one running down the side of the road. No bears sign here since. Too bad...

 

[SeaBee133]

We had one at our place here in Giles county, TN back in 2017. No bears around here. This one pooped in my yard several times. Stole a deer hide I had hanging. I saw it watching me late in the evening a couple times and, the next year, saw a little one running down the side of the road. No bears sign here since. Too bad...

Grew up in western WA. Black bears, cougars, elk and dog sized deer. Aunt and uncle had a creek side apple orchard. They had bear hunters with Airedales over pretty frequently. 2-3 bears each time.

 

[Penske]

Black bears are not that hard to kill. 80grns of 2F or 3F in a fifty cal with the right shot placement will do the job. 100 grains is a bit overkill. Just put the ball in the boiler behind the shoulder and the fifty will do the job.

 

[TransYank]

Black bears are not that hard to kill. 80grns of 2F or 3F in a fifty cal with the right shot placement will do the job. 100 grains is a bit overkill. Just put the ball in the boiler behind the shoulder and the fifty will do the job.

First one I killed was with 45 caliber and 90 grs 3f drt

 

[shorthair]

Deer are hard to figure out sometimes. You cut a loud fart, and they may fall over stone dead. Heart shot deer have been known to run a hundred yards. Sometimes geometry works against you, a rib or leg bone can change the angle of a projectile enough to stump the best of us. Sounds like you did everything you possibly could have to prepare. Weird things just happen. Glad it worked out in your favor. I have no experience hunting bear, I don't like the meat, so I don't pursue them. Someone will be along soon I'm sure to help.

You know it, popped one with a unmentionable rimfire once from the back porch on the farm, didn't even aim just pointed in the general direction and the danged deer fell dead at about 250 yards. The strange thing was that I didn't find a hole anywhere in the hide, we decided that it was scared to death.

 

[LME]

You know it, popped one with a unmentionable rimfire once from the back porch on the farm, didn't even aim just pointed in the general direction and the danged deer fell dead at about 250 yards. The strange thing was that I didn't find a hole anywhere in the hide, we decided that it was scared to death.

I had that happen to a rabbit I shot with a shotgun. I never found where a pellet struck the rabbit? When I shot the rabbit just turned a flip and was dead?

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I've killed more than my share of deer with muzzleloaders; no, just can't be "more" than my share!? I've never hunted with anything other than prb and not because I didn't want to use conicals. It was just because they worked so well I needed nothing else.

I've killed deer with prb in .45, .50, .54 and .60; the vast majority with the .45. Distances ranged from maybe 3-4 yards up to 100 (+ or -). Initially I used too much powder; 80 grns in the .45 and 100 grns in the .50. I no longer hunt but my deer loads were long ago reduced to 70 grns for both the .45, .50, .60 and 60 grns in the .54. Thankfully never lost a deer nor needed more than the one shot. Farthest shot with a .45 was right at 75 yards with full penetration. The farthest shots were one hundred yards & change with two different .50s, and again full penetration. I'd guess the average shot to have been around 30 yards.

With soft lead ball the primary, but not the only, factor in penetration is velocity. Up close, say under 35 to 40 yards full penetration is unusual and the ball is often found under the far side skin well flattened out. With smaller powder charges and/or greater distances ball expansion is often less dramatic or absent. The most impressive blood trail was from a large 8 pointer hit with a .45 prb. The shot was around 25 yds at an angle as he turned to walk directly away in front of my stand. He ran off in a stagger and I heard him fall. He left a trail with blood waist high on some of the shrubbery. The ball was again flattened just under the off side skin behind the shoulder.

I used the .50 a lot but a .45 was normally what I grabbed as I walked out the door. The .45s accounted for a suitable number of DRTs as did the .50s. I've never hunted bears but wouldn't hesitate using a .45 if I ever did. In my experience the round patched ball is terminally and awesomely lethal on deer size game and performs with aplomb from a .45 bore.

Hello dear “Hanshi “ I like what you write or say, Yrs I love you man . Sunny day London. Been working on my 28g shotgun barrels to fit my double .36 ml rifle ,

No I have never shot a deer in the uk, East south France mountains you might come across a bear , so much red tape to hunt in France , nobody it seems hunts with BP. Even no licence required for BP but you need one to buy BP You must have a min *2 scope.



Now my recently auction win £750 this little percussion carbine. .500 bore and 23” barrel They call it a mountain carbine. It looks like I’ll get 1200 plus ft: sec. 1600 would be nice .I mentioned the talented maker Munich , 1840, somewhere on a string . Too small to be called a jager ??? but beautiful Holts auction.

What do you think it’s capable of. Need some advice from the long rifles. Ha ha

Love from across the pond.