Round Ball Shot Placement

[Bob J]

Just sighted in my .54 GPR with 90 grains Black Mag 3 (same point of impact as 105 grains Goex 2f) and wonder ticking patched ball. First trip with the GPR was last fall (using Goex). Shot a doe at 15 yards, the ball went thru both shoulders, it sprinted about 80 yards and dropped. My question is, whats the best place to shoot the big 10 point; shoulder or BEHIND the shoulder? Is running 50 to 100 yds typical with round ball?

 

[Rat]

Running a ways before it dies can be typical with any firearm...the expectation for game to "drop" is unrealistic. Yes sometimes an animal will drop...and that's a bonus. But whether it drops and dies, or runs and dies, it's just as dead. Really it's a modern rifle mentatlity to expect the animal to drop everytime, and think there is something wrong with the weapon, the load, or the caliber if it does not.

I would certainly not trade the performance of your .54, shooting right through that doe, for some "majic" bullet that EXPLODES in the heart-lung area, taking the spine with it, and dropping the animal! And that's really what it takes to drop an animal every time. I believe that method is less reliable in the long run than a good wound channel, all the way, or most of the way through the animal. It just looks impressive when it happens.

The only problem with not dropping the animal is when it runs a couple miles before it dies, and that means it was not hit good, no matter what it was being shot with!!!!

Sounds like your .54 would shoot right through one shoulder and into the lungs of a big buck. My tendency would be to shoot a little further back, if the shot could be placed that precisely. I think you will do fine with a shot anywhere in the heart-lung area/kill zone.

Again, there is no reason to expect any animal to drop, no matter what you shoot them with. It is very normal for the animal to run a bit...

Rat

 

[roundball]

Precision is a learned ability through practice and experience, and based on your description, you may have shot him in the "area of the shoulders" but maybe not precisely "through both shoulders" themselves.

Deer that are shot through both shoulders drop where they stand as their shoulders are now broken and they can't stand, walk, run, etc...even better, a precisely placed shoulder shot will usually take out the spine between the shoulders at the same time, dropping the deer in it's tracks stone dead.

But IMO, the heart shot is the best odds prize to go after...highest yield sure thing there is...not a shot in the "area of the heart" but a clean, solid heart shot.

Every perfect heart shot I've ever made with a round ball (.45/.50/.54) has dropped the deer within a leap of where it stood, or within sight of the stand after a 25-30 yard sprint...and they're dead on their feet after the first leap as I've watched them run headlong / crash into big trees at 30mph indicating they never saw it...couldn't compute, navigate, sidestep it, etc.

To your question, if I have a good broadside shot, I place the ball right behind the 'elbow' of the deers front leg...the heart lays low in the body cavity, like a large grapefruit layind down low almost on the sternum of the deer, a portion of which can be protected by the front legs depending on how perfect of a broadside shot you have.

If not a broadside shot, you have to 'imagine' the line the ball has to take to go through the middle of that large grapefruit...if he's quartering away, you need to slip the ball in just behind the last rib so it travels forward through the heart;

If he's quatering towards you, you need to slip the ball low into either the left or right front chest pocket, on into/through the heart.

:m2c:

 

[Dave K]

As an old bowhunter I always look for the same spot. Right behind the shoulder about 1/3 the way up. This heart/lung shot will never fail if that is where you put it.

 

[Huntinfool]

I agree with Dave K. :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

It's never failed me yet if you look at one of those charts that have overlays showing bone, blood vessels, and vital organs. You can see that near the top of the heart is the biggest, and the most plumbing if you hit a little low you get the heart dead center.

If you hit exactly 1/3 way up you get the top of the heart plus some big blood vessels and the part of the lungs with the largest blood vessels. The back and top part of the lungs the blood vessels get smaller and smaller the farther back you hit! Thus it takes longer for the animal to go into shock and that is what kills them!:redthumb:

Chuck

 

High, double lung hits usually drop deer faster than any other hit. BUT- they must be at least 1/3 way down the body. This is because the lungs fill quickly, suffocating the animal. Heart shot deer usualy bolt for sometimes fairly long distances, Whereas deer usually don't go as far if merely lung shot. The shoulders aren't attached to the animal's body as your's are and punching through them with a round ball doesn't have the same effect as it would on you. Heavy bone, is a poor place to aim a round ball due to it's low sectional density(ability to resist objects & penetrate deeply) This low sectional density means it lacks the ability to penetrate heavy bones, unles it is of very heavy weight, like 16 bore or larger. A .54 might do well on moderate sized deer, but I would't want to shoulder shoot a big buck at 120yds. with one. Your 90gr. BlkMg3 is probably a good load for velocity, and at least equivalent to 80gr. weight of pyrodex- probably higher vel than pyrodex. That load is capable of killing a moose within 40yards of where it was standing at 170 yards, with double lung hits centering a rib on the way in, centred the heart and punctured both lungs - happened within 500yds of me just 2 weeks ago. Although this isn't the moose shot by the .54 RB, it is about the same size as it was. A .54 with patched RB is nothign to sneeze at. - remember 170 yards - rib, both lungs, heart, and under the hide on the off side. Never think you are undergunned, by any means.

: If the ball passes just under the spine, it can actually go over the lungs if they are deflated - happened to me - another story. Keep the shot down about 1/3 to 1/2 way. The high lung woks very well on deer and they run less than if heart shot. It matters not whether it by by ball or bullet. Most of the time, the patched RB kills faster than a bullet, modern or antique. I've seen it time and time again.
; BLEEDING - generaly there won't be a good blood trail, due to the RB hole being more of a slit than a round hole. As well, fat or connective tissue blocks this slit and prevents bleeding outside the animal. If the ball passes through, there is a better chance of a blood trail. Double both lungs, and you won't need a blood trial.

 

[brushbuster]

i have read where a neck shot will "drop,em in ther tracks".never tried it my self ,has anyone else tried it?

 

[cptleo1]

I am on old bow hunter and struggled with shot placement for years on a deer there is only one best place -- thru both lungs

The heart shot mentioned by others will do it in a hurry also, but most people don't realize how low in a deers chest cavity the heart actually is. I think round ball has it almost right. It is actually right under the elbow, so when he is telling you to shoot right behind the elbow with a quartering shot he is right--extremely bad medicine BUT there is a better way.

If you look at a deer broadside you will see a crease (wrinkle) that runs up and down behind the shoulder.

If you place your shot right on the top tip of this crease you will double lung him every time.

When we started using tree stands the shot angle changed and we had to do the imagine where the bullet - arrow would come out - not completly reliable.

but if you can see the top of that crease from ANY angle shoot and he is yours.

If you are a little low you are still in buisness one lung mabey a heart - if a little high still get the far side lung still in buisness.

The trick to a Quick kill is BOTH lungs.

Some one else spoke anout the deer running a long way. A well hit well hit deer will run usually for an amount of TIME. how far he goes is just a matter of how fast he is going. I will explain.

I warm blodded animal will pass out when the brain is deprived of oxegen (blood) for about 12 to 14 seconds, he will die at around 20 to 24 seconds. He dies from lack of oxegen to the brain. (Technically with the exception to severe trama to the head, lack of oxegen to the brain is what kills us all) When you blow out his lungs or heart he gets no blood to the brain and he passes out THEN dies.

Next one you hit one with a gun or bow count to your self one one thousand, two one thousand, bla bla bla and if you can see him he will go down right near 12 seconds Mabey fifty yds mabey 200 but in 12-14 seconds you will see or hear a crash.

If you watch hunting videos do the same thing start counting at the shot and 12 -14 seconds later you will see the hunter high fiving _"he is down he is down" and so it is.

With high powered rifles when they drop like a stone (from breaking the spine, neck or some such. The trama knocked him out and soon 15-20 seconds later he actually expires.

Kind of a gruesome subject, but as hunters we are responsible for doing it right the first time

Good Luck

 

[BrownBear]

Neck shots will drop them in their tracks, provided you connect with the spine. The further down the neck you go, the more that's a problem, and the easier it is to wound without killing. I've used the neck a lot, but only when shooting from a rest, at a still target, at a known range, yadayadayada.... The neck shot I use is right at the base of the skull. It's a smaller target, but there's less room for error. If I can't hit it with certainty, I pick another target (double-lung, in my case). For me a neck shot is a lot like a head shot- works great when you hit the right spot, but wounds badly without killing if your shot wanders even a little bit. I don't take heart shots because holes in the heart are pretty ugly on the table. I only take high neck shots, because I sure hate to spoil those neck roasts. Kinda hate spoiling the ribs too...... Has anyone figured out how to stick a bag over their head and suffocate them? How about electrocuting them?

 

[Stumpkiller]

I sure hate to spoil those neck roasts. Kinda hate spoiling the ribs too......

You need one of Daryl's .62 caliber rifles. Shoot for their feet, and the fall into the crater kills them.

Here'a a pretty good schematic. I follow the vertical line of the back of the foreleg up into the middle of the torso and put my shot there. Sighted 2" high at 50 yards, I don't have to concern myself with trajectory until just past 100 yards; and conditions would have to be perfect before I'd stretch my barrel any farther.

Kind of a gruesome subject, but as hunters we are responsible for doing it right the first time

Too true. A while back I related my story of my last head shot and why I won't take them anymore. Shot a doe 15 yards away that was peeking around a tree and splattered the skull cap off from halfway up the eye-sockets. Took 30 seconds to stop swaying, moaning and spraying. Ghastly. Haunted me for weeks. Never again.

 

[Atfulldraw]

Back when I first started deer hunting (with a slug gun) I hit a doe a little high and passed right between the lungs and the spine. She was crippled and fell -- bawling, kicking and scraping at the ground. My heart was racing and I had a major adrenaline rush. I ran up to her and shot her in the head to "put her out of her misery (and mine for that matter)". What a mistake. Took her skull cap off and bulged her eyes out. She continued to bawl and kick for another 20 or 30 seconds before finally succombing. I was within 10 yards of her watching the whole thing -- very disturbing.

Since then I became a traditional bowhunter and am now getting into traditional muzzleloading. As a bowhunter, I always wait for the best double lung shot. I aim just high of the heart -- about 1" high of the "elbow" and 2" towards the rear. This shot has always worked for me -- plenty of lung/heart to hit for a few inches in any direction. I never take a shot with an animal quartering to me, too risky and I am leary about taking shots that are quartered away too far off broadside. Since I have made that choice -- I shoot fewer deer, but when I shoot I am confident the critter will be killed quickly and humanely.

As a side note, regardless of the weapon of choice, I do not take running shots. And I do not take bow shots at allerted deer as they have a tendency to severely jump the string -- sometimes dropping a FOOT or more by the time the arrow gets there. Both of the deer that I have lost in my bowhunting career were lost because of string jump resulting in a hit between the lungs and the spine -- no vitals...

For me at least, killing is not as important as hunting. Wait for the perfect shot and sleep better at night!

:m2c:

 

[cayugad]

I was told by friends that I shoot the deer too high off the heart, that I am missing the heart (although normallythe top is mushroomed). Yet most of the deer I shoot never go more then a few steps with a roundball. Like Stumpkiller I follow that back-side of the front leg up and then picture where that ball should pass through. I like to end up in the other shoulder if I can just to knock them in the shoulder good and hard. I think when you hear people say it dropped them in their tracks that because they blew out the lungs and hit good bone in the other shoulder at the same time.

As for neck shots... yup, right where the skull meets the neck. And then only if you are really well set up to make that shot. You point of hit is very small there.

I've done head shots too. And they are gruesome to say the least. They do take the deer down fast, but they sure make them nasty on the eye ball for looking... A roundball will sure knock them down fast when put in the head.

A side story, I know a fellow shot a deer with a .270 right between the eyes (he claimed). He waited a while and smoked a cigarette to calm down, then walked up to it, was looking at it, it jumped up and took off. He never did get that deer. And there was no blood at the scene. All we could figure is the bullet hit and glanced off the thick skull bone. It knocked the devil out, and probably gave it a heck of a head ache, but never did draw a spot of blood.

 

[silverfox]

Neck shots on deer? Yes a good hit will knock'em down in there tracks. But they may get up and make a bloody scene that will make you sick before they die. Thinking I would get some good hides I tried neck shots twice and swore never again to gruesome to watch. I like Stumpkiller advice behind the shoulder 1/3 to 1/2 the way up the body works every time. I've killed over a 100 in my time and never had one go over 100 yds when hit in the crease leg forward hit the top of white spot. I have tracked to many neck shot deer for other hunters, I think it's a bad shot to take I respect the animals to much to not make killing humane shots. :imo:
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[brushbuster]

being a bow hunter myself,i was always taught to hit em in the "boiler room" (heart lung area). my favorite shot is braod side,i usually set my sites just above the point of the shoulder and wait for the deer to move the front leg forward then sqeez er off.
in most cases the deer will run about 50 yards and drop there have been times where i have hit high and the deer ran up to 150 yds . funny thing is i miss more deer at close range than far by over compensating or trying a head shot and missing.
this year i am only shooting for the low lung area ,iit may run but it wont run far :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

p.s thanks for conferming what i have been saying all along :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: