Round ball VS Conical
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I am very new to shooting BP rifles so I have limited experiance.
But I do know first hand that round balls recoil a lot less than heavy conicals.
The smaller size also means the lead goes farther when casting bullets.
Also I figure if round balls have been geting the job done well for the last multiple of hundreds of years, why mess with a wining idea?
But I do know first hand that round balls recoil a lot less than heavy conicals.
The smaller size also means the lead goes farther when casting bullets.
Also I figure if round balls have been geting the job done well for the last multiple of hundreds of years, why mess with a wining idea?
ohio ramrod
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The hollow based mini's like was used in the civil war are a much heavier projectile than an equivalant caliber round ball. They carry their energy out to further ranges and deform more on contact. As to accuracy they are equal in potential accuracy with little wind involved out to about 150 yards. Each requires "playing with " to develope accurate loads for the right guns. The mini's usually prefer a faster twist and shallower grooves than round balls. But not always, many early rifled muskets shot well with a min and a 1 in 72 twist. :idunno:
Idaho Ron
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Trailboy said:
Tim this is likely to be a thread that could blow up. All I am going to say about PRB's is it depends on your twist of the barrel. IF you got a fast twist you might want to explore a conical. If it is a slow twist use a PRB.
I like conicals because of the country I hunt. I like to hunt wide open areas for Trophy mule deer, Antelope, and Elk. The conicals I use are all about horse power.I want maximum power out to way out yonder. The sights on my rifles are Lyman 57 SML peeps. They are instantly adjustable from 50 yards out to way past 300. SO I don't hold over or hold under to make a shot. For a first hit on any animal I will not shoot past 150. If an animal is still on it's feet I can take the follow up shot if needed without feeling like I am out of power at that range. So far for me the first one is all I have needed with my Paper patched conicals. Ron
Roundballs are lighter weight so they have a higher velocity with a given powder charge.
That results in a flatter trajectory for the first 80 or so yards. Then the roundball starts running out of energy and velocity and starts dropping rather fast.
Roundballs cost WAY less to buy which makes it easy to afford to shoot a lot of them.
This is important because with a single shot gun the shooter must know what load shoots most accurately.
The only way to know this is to shoot a lot of shots.
Roundballs are as accurate as bullets if it isn't windy so shots out to 100 yards are easily done.
IMO, when shooting a traditional gun, the iron sights pretty much limit hunting shots to about 100 yards or so anyway so the roundball is very much a 'hunting load' with a sidelock muzzleloader.
Because of their lighter weight, there is less recoil even with heavy hunting loads.
Bullets cost more. There's no way around it unless you cast your own.
Where a purchased roundball may cost 20 cents it isn't uncommon for purchased bullets to cost $.85 - $1.50 each.
Bullets maintain their energy much better than roundballs so for long distance shots they will carry their velocity better.
This can be important when hunting large animals such as elk at long ranges.
That said, their slower velocity will produce a much more curved flight path making the ability to judge distances accurately at a number of ranges very important.
Obviously a 400+ grain bullet will have a rather stiff recoil if a hunting load is used.
I know we are all tough and recoil doesn't bother us but I'm always amazed at the number of people who flinch like the gun actually fired when a mis-fire happens.
That results in a flatter trajectory for the first 80 or so yards. Then the roundball starts running out of energy and velocity and starts dropping rather fast.
Roundballs cost WAY less to buy which makes it easy to afford to shoot a lot of them.
This is important because with a single shot gun the shooter must know what load shoots most accurately.
The only way to know this is to shoot a lot of shots.
Roundballs are as accurate as bullets if it isn't windy so shots out to 100 yards are easily done.
IMO, when shooting a traditional gun, the iron sights pretty much limit hunting shots to about 100 yards or so anyway so the roundball is very much a 'hunting load' with a sidelock muzzleloader.
Because of their lighter weight, there is less recoil even with heavy hunting loads.
Bullets cost more. There's no way around it unless you cast your own.
Where a purchased roundball may cost 20 cents it isn't uncommon for purchased bullets to cost $.85 - $1.50 each.
Bullets maintain their energy much better than roundballs so for long distance shots they will carry their velocity better.
This can be important when hunting large animals such as elk at long ranges.
That said, their slower velocity will produce a much more curved flight path making the ability to judge distances accurately at a number of ranges very important.
Obviously a 400+ grain bullet will have a rather stiff recoil if a hunting load is used.
I know we are all tough and recoil doesn't bother us but I'm always amazed at the number of people who flinch like the gun actually fired when a mis-fire happens.
I'm not tough at all, and I been trying to fix that flinch thing. The one good thing about the miss-fire is it is a good way to see the degree of flinch I have. (pretty bad to be honest...)Zonie said:
Round balls are traditional. Conicals showed up around 1840/1850. Modern conicals are just that. Conicals have better sectional density and ballistic coefficient and are superior projectiles for range and energy retention. Within their shorter practical range round balls are very effective.
If you are in the sport for an added season by all means use conicals and learn to shoot.
If you want challenge and a connection to history use round balls and learn to hunt.
If you are in the sport for an added season by all means use conicals and learn to shoot.
If you want challenge and a connection to history use round balls and learn to hunt.
i shoot both RB and conical but not just for the reasons below you state(and i usually dont disagree with anything you say).Up to 50 the RB is accurate but much past that the conical has the accuracy i like for target and varmint shooting.I dont like modern inlines but that's just me.Some of those guys are the one that i see just wanting to extend a season and have no real interest in learning to shoot a BP gun.In the open country of EA Washington state you would often go hungry with the limiting range and accuracy of a RB regardless of how skilled of a hunter you are.In Western Washington a RB is fine as you cant see far enough to shoot long range.I like to hunt but i also like to eat wild game because i choose a conical doesn't make me a worse hunter. I understand the connection with history part(we all still like to play cowboys and Indians)But to say a modification of projectiles as when it stopped being traditional i disagree with.
ron is right his thread may"blow up"
George
ron is right his thread may"blow up"
George
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nchawkeye
58 Cal.
Tell us more about your rifle, rate of twist, depth of rifling, caliber and what you want to do with it...
Kinda hard to discuss without knowing if you have a .32 or a .62....
Kinda hard to discuss without knowing if you have a .32 or a .62....
Billnpatti
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The main diference is the twist rate of the barrel. Most round ball barrels have a twist rate of something like 1:60 or even slower. Conical bullets need a faster rate of spin to stabilize them so they will need a barrel with a twist rate of 1:48 or faster. The 1:48 twist rate is really a compromise between a round ball barrel and a conical barrel and will shoot both of them reasonably well. But like most compromises, it does neither excellently. There is also a difference in the type and depth of rifling between a round ball and a conical barrel.
I am in NE Washington state and in the forest. Geting close 30-75 yards is very likely around here. Now granted if you hunt the farmers fields there can be some long range shots involved.
You wonder how the traditional bowhunters that shun tree-stands ever eat with a 25 yard range. ;-)
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Well, you have to impersonate a mineral block.
Sadly often true. Every activity has slobs. But then a conical might just be so you don't have to climb off the ATV. ;-)
Sperit de bois
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Refer to the owners manual,,that should put you in to either PRB or Conical.Then go to the range and find out which combination of patch/lube/ball size,powder,FFF/FF your rifle likes..Then shoot a lot and hunt every chance you get.
Nothing ever takes the place of "doing it" that and you get to shoot more,,which isn't a bad thing.
It isn't rocket surgery,,it's black powder,,like the old days,,or just the other day for some of us. :rotf:
Nothing ever takes the place of "doing it" that and you get to shoot more,,which isn't a bad thing.
It isn't rocket surgery,,it's black powder,,like the old days,,or just the other day for some of us. :rotf:
I'd like to add that as the weight of a conical increases so does the length- since that is the only direction the added weight can be placed within the particular bore in question. A longer bullet is harder to stabilize so you need a faster twist. The increase in weight also increases the internal pressure (the reason for more recoil) and there is a limit in how heavy a bullet can be used. You should have received some sort of a chart with the gun you purchased. The powder chart may also have to be reduced with some conicals.
One BIG plus to a patched round ball is that only the patch contacts the inside of the bore. NO LEAD FOULING :grin: :grin: :grin: . I hunt in the jungles and the deer are small so a PRB is plenty fine. The PRB is also a lot easier to load and RELOAD. Some conicals are really hard to seat and you often have to swab the bore. If you don't swab the bore between conical shots it may be all but impossible to seat a conical- not something you want to experience in the field when having to reload and track down a game animal.
So....a PRB. I would say that ought to be your default load and only think about the conical if you are facing a unique situation- a very big animal or a very open area with long shots.
One BIG plus to a patched round ball is that only the patch contacts the inside of the bore. NO LEAD FOULING :grin: :grin: :grin: . I hunt in the jungles and the deer are small so a PRB is plenty fine. The PRB is also a lot easier to load and RELOAD. Some conicals are really hard to seat and you often have to swab the bore. If you don't swab the bore between conical shots it may be all but impossible to seat a conical- not something you want to experience in the field when having to reload and track down a game animal.
So....a PRB. I would say that ought to be your default load and only think about the conical if you are facing a unique situation- a very big animal or a very open area with long shots.
gmww
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Agree on the weight issue. I'm going to get ready for another Buffalo hunt. I've killed one with a .62 RB that has some weight behind it. I'm thinking of using a .54. Just purchased a Great Plains mold for the .54. Mostly because I want the weight to penetrate.
hanshi
Cannon
First off, you should shoot whichever one gives you the best accuracy; doesn't matter which one it is, either. Though I've never hunted with any conical - I use prb exclusively - I've had fairly decent accuracy (3" at 50yds) from cap and flintlocks with 1-66" twists during range tests. This was with heavier hunting loads, however. From what I've seen, conicals penetrate better than prb but don't expand nearly as well as prb. Take your pick.
Conicals are a bit more resistant to wind than are prb but have a more looping trajectory inside 100-125 yards. They hold up a bit better than prb at the extended ranges. Conicals raise breech pressures and are harder on nipples and touch holes and do recoil more than prb even though their velocity is less. Yes, they do cost more and use more lead.
Prb are traditional and proven, cheaper, recoil less, give higher velocities, expand very well, penetrate much better than you'd expect and drop deer quickly, maybe even faster than conicals.
So, shoot whatever you want but hunt with the projectile that gives you the better accuracy. It's almost a non issue after that.
Conicals are a bit more resistant to wind than are prb but have a more looping trajectory inside 100-125 yards. They hold up a bit better than prb at the extended ranges. Conicals raise breech pressures and are harder on nipples and touch holes and do recoil more than prb even though their velocity is less. Yes, they do cost more and use more lead.
Prb are traditional and proven, cheaper, recoil less, give higher velocities, expand very well, penetrate much better than you'd expect and drop deer quickly, maybe even faster than conicals.
So, shoot whatever you want but hunt with the projectile that gives you the better accuracy. It's almost a non issue after that.
If it was all just about performance we'd be shooting .338 Lapuas and muzzleloaders would all be in museums.
You don't owe it to the animal to shoot the best performing projectile. You owe it to the animal to pass on shots that are beyond your ability and/or the effective range or performance of your chosen implements.
Many of us here are deliberately working with the round ball because we want that tie to history and the challenge it offers.
Certainly you should use what you are confident with and the law allows.
You don't owe it to the animal to shoot the best performing projectile. You owe it to the animal to pass on shots that are beyond your ability and/or the effective range or performance of your chosen implements.
Many of us here are deliberately working with the round ball because we want that tie to history and the challenge it offers.
Certainly you should use what you are confident with and the law allows.
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As seen in the photos from Idaho Ron, terrain can add a huge "dictate" to the gear you choose, all within the bounds of history defined here. For longer ranges common to the West, conicals were adopted quickly to take the edge off the Starving Times experienced by round ball shooters who brought their Eastern guns and bullets with them. It's just a fact of the wide open spaces that you're going to go hungry a lot more often with the limited range of a round ball, as amply demonstrated by Lewis and Clark.
Inside 100 yards as I prefer I'm round ball all the way, and fortunately I live in a place where I can usually make that happen. If shots were almost always beyond 100 yards due to terrain, I'd be conical all the way. Documentation describes admiringly that conical bullets were used from a Hawken by at least one shooter in Taos in 1842. And Hawkens were standard with the 1:48" twists needed to stabilize them.
Goodenuff to settle the question once and for all for this Westerner. The rules started changing when folks moved west, and holding to Eastern standards today won't change the history of the West.
Inside 100 yards as I prefer I'm round ball all the way, and fortunately I live in a place where I can usually make that happen. If shots were almost always beyond 100 yards due to terrain, I'd be conical all the way. Documentation describes admiringly that conical bullets were used from a Hawken by at least one shooter in Taos in 1842. And Hawkens were standard with the 1:48" twists needed to stabilize them.
Goodenuff to settle the question once and for all for this Westerner. The rules started changing when folks moved west, and holding to Eastern standards today won't change the history of the West.
