Round Balls and Jug Chokes

[BS]

Image by Musketman.

I have been using a brake hone to make a Jug Choke in my 7ga. I am getting about .001 per set of stones. I have opened it up about .005.

I wanted to see how this has affected shooting round balls.

At 35 yds. my first shot was high and right, the next two using a lubed wad, were in the same hole only lower. The point of impact from a patched RB is about 2"s to the right.

When I get some new 2F, I will shoot some more balls.

I was using the bottom load, nitro/wad/card....and it is looking very good! :grin:

 

[Leonredbeard]

BS,
Thanks for that information, I find it interesting, especially that it shoots that well, or YOU shoot that well with it. How soon will you try shot? Birdshot or buckshot? Let us know how it works. 7 gauge? What is your intended use, breaking your shoulder? :rotf: Hee Hee!
YHWH bless.
volatpluvia

 

[BS]

BS,
Thanks for that information, I find it interesting, especially that it shoots that well, or YOU shoot that well with it. How soon will you try shot? Birdshot or buckshot? Let us know how it works. 7 gauge? What is your intended use, breaking your shoulder? :rotf: Hee Hee!
YHWH bless.
volatpluvia

I use it for both, bird and ball...... Well, I hope to use it for Turkey.

It keeps the bones loosened up! :rotf:

 

[DrTimboone]

Please splain to this "never shot a smooth bore flinter in my life" what a jug choke is?? Where are you removing metal from the bore? Is this different that a "Turkey choke"? How is that done?? Don't choke me for my beginner questions? :haha:

 

[Mike Brooks]

There is alot more to a jug choke than running a cheap cylinder bore in one spot in the barrel till it wears out. A jug choke, properly cut, will be around 10" long, with a gradual taper and a couple critical angles cut in stratigic spots in the jug.
Slight variences in the application make a tremendous difference in the performance of the choke.
By the way, a 7 bore is illegal to hunt with in the USA. :nono:
A jug will shoot a patched RB.

 

[Russianblood]

By the way, a 7 bore is illegal to hunt with in the USA. :nono:

In Michigan, it is not illegal to hunt Turkey (or anything for that matter) with a 7 bore. The only restriction is the shot must be #4 or smaller.
[url] http://www.michigandnr.com/pu...ildlifehabitat/guides/06springturkey.pdf[/url]

 

[musketman]

Please splain to this "never shot a smooth bore flinter in my life" what a jug choke is?? Where are you removing metal from the bore?

The metal removed isn't as much in my diagram, I just did this for ease of understanding...

The metal is removed close to the muzzle and extends back a few inches...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Dr. Tim: A jug choke is a choke in the inside of a smoothbore gun made by grinding out metal to make what would otherwise appear as a " Bulge" internally, but not externally on the barrel. If you think of how a jug made for liquor flairs from the mouth to the main chamber, this is where the idea gets its name. As Mike Brooks indicates, a proper jug choke is about 10 inches long, has a gradual taper into the widest part of the jug, and a shorter taper coming out. We are talking thousands of an inch, here, and the barrel has to have some steel to it for this work to be considered. V.M.Starr made this kind of choke popular in the early days of the NMLRA, and offered this service to shotgunners all of his life. Since his passing, a couple of other men have carried on the craft.

In the days when manufacturers did not make choked barrels, and we certainly didn't have screw in choke tubes, Jug choking was the way to improve performance and patterns of shotguns. We now include things like relieving the throat, using a tapered reamer, and backboring, in modern shotguns to squeeze out maximum performance out of smoothbore guns. Both are modern turns on the old idea of "Jug-choking", in that they employ the concept of long tapers to improve performance of shot patterns.

Perhaps the most novel thing now being done was studied and perfected by the Perazzi company many years ago, and that is straight-line rifling, or " grooving" in the barrels. This is not for shooting slugs, but for shooting shot, as these grooves keep the wads from rotating as they go down the barrel, which makes for tighter patterns. None of this technology has, or is likely to, spread to muzzle loaders. Screw in choke tubes have, because of the requirement to use non-toxic shot to hunt waterfowl, but open choke guns are still the norm.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Perhaps the most novel thing now being done was studied and perfected by the Perazzi company many years ago, and that is straight-line rifling, or " grooving" in the barrels. This is not for shooting slugs, but for shooting shot, as these grooves keep the wads from rotating as they go down the barrel, which makes for tighter patterns. None of this technology has, or is likely to, spread to muzzle loaders.

There's nothing new under the sun, straight groove rifleing has been in use for 100's of years. I owned a 14 bore Durrs Egg that was straight rifled for shooting shot. The barrel was Spanish , and dated 1753, the gun it's self dated to the 1780's

 

[paulvallandigham]

Mike: I knew it was old, and that is why I referred to the work by Perazzi some 30 years ago( There is an article in an old issue of Gun Digest) as being both a study, and perfection of the concept. Perazzi managed to get 98% patterns back then, and with newer components and shot today, that figure must surely be closer to 100%. Thanks for the information on how far back it went. I have not dug out the article on Perazzi to re-read it, but now I will have to do so, and see what kind of credit they give to the old makers. Perazzi perfected it for use with modern guns and loading components. I doubt the rifling, or grooving, is as deep as it was in the older guns. With plastic shotwads, the grooves would not have to be sharp, or deep.

 

[BS]

There is alot more to a jug choke than running a cheap cylinder bore in one spot in the barrel till it wears out. A jug choke, properly cut, will be around 10" long, with a gradual taper and a couple critical angles cut in stratigic spots in the jug.
Slight variences in the application make a tremendous difference in the performance of the choke.
By the way, a 7 bore is illegal to hunt with in the USA. :nono:
A jug will shoot a patched RB.

My choke is 4.5" of front taper, 1.5"center diameter, and 1.5" of rear taper, for a 7.5" total.

I may make a special cutter or turn it in a lathe, but for just one barrel, I will burn some more hone stones up, and try to get .015 of choke. But .020 would really be nice.

I cannot hunt waterfoul, but Turkeys are legal in MI. :grin:

I lapped the whole bore in less time than it will take to do the choke. :shocked2:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Lowell Tennyson Jugs for $50. You'll probably have more than that in honing stones before you're done. :winking:

 

[roundball]

FYI, Lowell's price to me just now was $60 + return UPS shipping

 

[Mike Brooks]

Well, the price of everything goes up eventually I guess.

 

[BS]

Lowell Tennyson Jugs for $50. You'll probably have more than that in honing stones before you're done. :winking:

FYI, Lowell's price to me just now was $60 + return UPS shipping

It's not really the price, I just like to do my own work, Thanks Guys! :winking:

 

[pmwest]

How do you keep the patch on the ball when you ram through the jug? Almost threw the whole gun at a deer when I had the ball go past the patch while reloading in a deer stand. Gave up using patches and have been experimenting with bare ball between card wads.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Use a large square cut patch. Or as you said, go with bare ball and cards and wads.

 

[BS]

How do you keep the patch on the ball when you ram through the jug? Almost threw the whole gun at a deer when I had the ball go past the patch while reloading in a deer stand. Gave up using patches and have been experimenting with bare ball between card wads.

How big of a ball are you using?

Mine are a little big, but with my custom short starter and my mallet, they fit just fine. Abour .003 bigger than the bore, but seem to shoot just fine.

I am going to have Jeff Tanner build me a smaller mold, and start shooting some of my hard lead stach! I want them bore size, no slop.

 

[Mike Brooks]

most all ball i shoot out of smooth bored guns are .020 under bore size.
If you're shooting bare ball, I would think You're going to run into fouling problems real quick with a bore sized ball, but I've never tried it.

 

[roundball]

How do you keep the patch on the ball when you ram through the jug? Almost threw the whole gun at a deer when I had the ball go past the patch while reloading in a deer stand. Gave up using patches and have been experimenting with bare ball between card wads.

Do you use an oxyoke wad under your patched ball?

I'm having a .62cal jug choked as we speak and was wondering what I might experience with PRB's after it's jug choked.....I use oxyoke wads with all hunting loads and I'm hoping the wad will prevent what you experienced.

With all my ML's, I set a tight fitting wad just inside the muzzle then set a PRB on it at the muzzle and seat the whole thing together...I'm hoping the snug fitting wad will hold the patch pinched up tight enough against the ball to keep the patch centered under the ball while everything moves down through the jug choke together.

I'll know in a couple weeks...