round balls don't do well

[Mr. Flintlock]

T

I have been fighting with ball and patch in my 1:48 50 cal hawken, got to a good patch and lube but it does not shoot well at 100 yds. With a .495 ball and a .024 denim patch TOW mink oil lube at 48 yards I get a 2 1/2" grouping, but out at 100 it will spray in an 8" circle. Starting at 60 gr 3f all the way to 95 gr. raises the poi but still has a very good group at 48 but a big spread at 100. This patch n lube did the best at 48, but has no better pattern at 100. I wonder if a .490 would be better, has any one found an improvement with the smaller ball. (my bore is .500 .517 in the lands by slugging the bbl.
coupe

The twist in the barrel is too fast for roundballs using heavy charges. Back off to 50 gr. and see if there's any improvement.

 

[Bushfire]

Gurther, Pedersoli recommends a round ball with their 1:24 twist rate Jaeger

Where can I find this information

 

[chorizo]

DM Relicshooter He is a Jaegar shooter and has done so at long range with ball. I am sure he has some good ideas for you.

 

[longcruise]

The twist in the barrel is too fast for roundballs using heavy charges. Back off to 50 gr. and see if there's any improvement.

I shot and hunted exclusively with a TC Hawken 50 cal for a bunch of years. Loaded as high as 90 grains with accuracy. Will also say that I settled on 70 grains when I found that it was deadly enough. Same story with a TC 54 that was a tack driver with 80 grains. That rifle shot a third place in a match with 219 entries.

All that just to say that there's something going on other than the twist rate.

 

[aussie pete]

Where can I find this information

Here you go Bushfire.

I not sure about the rules for placing links on here, so I'll try a cautionary approach, and send the link via PM.

Pete

 

[Bad Karma]

I shot and hunted exclusively with a TC Hawken 50 cal for a bunch of years. Loaded as high as 90 grains with accuracy. Will also say that I settled on 70 grains when I found that it was deadly enough. Same story with a TC 54 that was a tack driver with 80 grains. That rifle shot a third place in a match with 219 entries.

All that just to say that there's something going on other than the twist rate.

Even though there can be general rules for what does and doesn’t work, every rifle is a law unto itself.

 

[FishDFly]

I have been fighting with ball and patch in my 1:48 50 cal hawken, got to a good patch and lube but it does not shoot well at 100 yds. With a .495 ball and a .024 denim patch TOW mink oil lube at 48 yards I get a 2 1/2" grouping, but out at 100 it will spray in an 8" circle. Starting at 60 gr 3f all the way to 95 gr. raises the poi but still has a very good group at 48 but a big spread at 100. This patch n lube did the best at 48, but has no better pattern at 100. I wonder if a .490 would be better, has any one found an improvement with the smaller ball. (my bore is .500 .517 in the lands by slugging the bbl.
coupe

If you ae getting 2 1/2" at 50, that means you should be getting a 5" group at 100. Spreading to 8" could be a technique problem.

Try placing the very end of the stock on the sand bag and see what that does. Normally rifles will shoot better with the end of the stock on the bag versus in the middle of the stock.

Also try placing very light cheek pressure on the stock. This is what most bench shooters use.

Have you blackened your front and rear sights?

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

I shot and hunted exclusively with a TC Hawken 50 cal for a bunch of years. Loaded as high as 90 grains with accuracy. Will also say that I settled on 70 grains when I found that it was deadly enough. Same story with a TC 54 that was a tack driver with 80 grains. That rifle shot a third place in a match with 219 entries.

All that just to say that there's something going on other than the twist rate.

Not necessarily, after all Green Mountain Barrel Co. made lots of money selling drop in barrels with a slow twist for TC rifles, designed to shoot round balls.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Where can I find this information

It's on the Pedersoli website. Under the technical specifications. There is a bullet code listed for the rifle. It's for their round ball, and it's also the same for their "target Jaeger" which has a 1:65 twist rate.

Pedersoli Jaeger

LD

 

[longcruise]

Not necessarily, after all Green Mountain Barrel Co. made lots of money selling drop in barrels with a slow twist for TC rifles, designed to shoot round balls.

Yes, they certainly did. I added a gm drop in 54 but only to upgrade the caliber.

I think many many 1:48 guns are sold off or relegated to a corner of the closet because they just won't shoot. Convicted of "failure to group" based on circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Insufficient evidence and deserve a new trial.

 

[FishDFly]

Glad the Hawken Bros. did not read here before building their rifles.

 

[Frontier's]

gotta love it when they say the 1:48 twist is too fast for round balls.

 

[FishDFly]

Sometimes I don't think it is the rate of twist, maybe some folks just cannot shoot accurately. See it in matches often.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

gotta love it when they say the 1:48 twist is too fast for round balls.

What did you use for a charge.2 mi

gotta love it when they say the 1:48 twist is too fast for round balls.

I didn't say they wouldn't shoot roundballs. I said they don't do well with heavy charges. Fast twist barrels are designed to shoot long bearing surface bullets. Heavy charges and roundballs don't work very well in fast twist rifle barrels. Gotta love it when people can't read the post

 

[longcruise]

Another example. First, many don't realize that the earlier Lyman GPRs had a 1:48 twist. I had one and measured the twist when I read it somewhere.

Since I didn't know any better, I shot a 530 ball and 110 grains of Goex ff for elk hunting. Worked just fine.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

As luck would have it.

 

[Frontier's]

What did you use for a charge.2 mi

I didn't say they wouldn't shoot roundballs. I said they don't do well with heavy charges. Fast twist barrels are designed to shoot long bearing surface bullets. Heavy charges and roundballs don't work very well in fast twist rifle barrels. Gotta love it when people can't read the post

80gr 2fg.

That rifle shot under 2" at 100 with 110gr 2fg.

 

[Mr. Flintlock]

Ok

 

[LME]

What did you use for a charge.2 mi

I didn't say they wouldn't shoot roundballs. I said they don't do well with heavy charges. Fast twist barrels are designed to shoot long bearing surface bullets. Heavy charges and roundballs don't work very well in fast twist rifle barrels. Gotta love it when people can't read the post

I have had the same experiences as you. All the .50 cal. rifles with 1:48 twist rifling that I have shot all performed best with 60 grains of powder when using a round ball. As soon as I started increasing the charge accuracy started to wain. Why some people say they can shoot 90 plus grains may be their idea of accuracy isn't as tight as some others will accept?

 

[Frontier's]

I have had the same experiences as you. All the .50 cal. rifles with 1:48 twist rifling that I have shot all performed best with 60 grains of powder when using a round ball. As soon as I started increasing the charge accuracy started to wain. Why some people say they can shoot 90 plus grains may be their idea of accuracy isn't as tight as some others will accept?

Or maybe your rifle or skills are lacking?

My traditions st.louis hawken 54 prints soft ball sized groups at 200 yards with 90gr 3fg. Not too shabby with open sights.

Even the original 50cal barrel did awesome with 110fr 2fg.