When doing some water jug tests last year, a swaged Hornady .490 ball fired at about 1600 fps had zero expansion. I know jug tests aren't always a good predictor and we only fired one shot -- not a real test. But it has me wondering whether one can expect roundball to reliably expand on game animals. The only deer I've shot with a muzzleloader was with a conical and 1 shot opportunity per year is about all I can ever expect here. So for those of you who hunt with roundball, what is your experience? Do you find flattened balls inside the body cavity? Larger exits than entries? Or caliber-sized holes in/out?
Roundball Expansion?
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I have shot a lot of deer with round ball muzzle loaders from 50 caliber to 58 caliber. I have only recovered balls that went thru the shoulder and lodged under the skin on the far side somewhat flattened. Both balls were from a .50 caliber gun. I have never recovered any .54, .56 or .58 balls. All exited the body leaving what appears to be a caliber sized hole. I only take broad side behind the shoulder shots, and none at more than 100 yards. The longest shot I have ever taken on a deer with a muzzle loader was 83 yards (measured with a range finder), and i did not recover the ball from that deer either. The cover is very thick where I hunt, and shots more than 50 yards are rare.
Uncle Miltie
50 Cal.
I think the old Lyman books had photos of what you are looking for.
On soft tissue ball may have little expansion. And I’ve put ball between ribs so all I got was a neat finger sized hole, but the wound channel was good sized. On the off side rib was hit and I could stick three fingers in the exit. However that was just one deer.
I’ve shot spine and the entrance hole was neat and round, exit side completely shattered.
A three quarter shot passing through liver diapham and lung before exit shows and increased wound channel
I’ve shot spine and the entrance hole was neat and round, exit side completely shattered.
A three quarter shot passing through liver diapham and lung before exit shows and increased wound channel
Walkingeagle
54 Cal.
Most of mine have not been recovered, however I remember recovering one from a moose years ago on the off-side. It started as a .530 ball and almost doubled in size. Sorry, but my old chemo riddled brain doesn’t recall others. I do believe all my deer and bear were pass throughs.
Walk
Walk
Phil Coffins
69 Cal.
Disregard the very large ball but the two normal ball show that muzzle loader ball expand on game. I have some more that have not been photographed.
IMG_0759 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
IMG_0759 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr
I deer hunt with a Kentucky long rifle with 0.490 cal PRB. Most of the time I never recover the ball and always have great blood trails with a larger exit wound then the entrance wound. I have never lost a deer with this set up and have taken 11 as of last year. Shot placement is more important in my honest opinion than anything else.
DuncNZ
54 Cal.
Pure lead balls usually expand if they hit some resistance , ones shot at steel gongs make a splat mark .
I have taken 2 mule deer with a Hornady .490 ball.. recovered 1 fully intact ball that was flattened like pictured above by Phil Collins. On the 2nd deer I found shavings of the lead ball. Larger exit holes also, possibly from flattened ball but maybe also from the ball pushing out bone of the animal?
Brokennock
Cannon
Pure lead rounballs have been killing all sizes of game for hundreds of years. Why are you worried about it? Put the ball where it needs to go.
I'd suggest because he's interested
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I recovered one .530 ball from a doe that was facing me at 40 yards. I gave the deer to a friend and asked him to save the ball and to let me know how deep it went. When I received the ball it was twice its size and went a tad over three feet deep. I was using 80 grains of Pyrodex. All other shots at deer were pass throughs except this one.
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In addition to the great expansion shown in the photos above, if deep penetration Is needed for animals bigger and tougher than deer (I like lean pork) consider the following.
I once test fired a .690 water quenched, wheel weight round ball from an unmentionable shotgun at 2000+ fps (don't know how much BP that would require). It completely penetrated a 10" diameter dried pine log, taking a 1"X 2" chunk out of the back, and buried 1" deep into a second log with only minor flattening on one side.
At iron sight hunting ranges and using the right type of lead - pure, alloys, water quenched, or heat treated - the RB can do any job. JMHO.
I once test fired a .690 water quenched, wheel weight round ball from an unmentionable shotgun at 2000+ fps (don't know how much BP that would require). It completely penetrated a 10" diameter dried pine log, taking a 1"X 2" chunk out of the back, and buried 1" deep into a second log with only minor flattening on one side.
At iron sight hunting ranges and using the right type of lead - pure, alloys, water quenched, or heat treated - the RB can do any job. JMHO.
And consider the balls size. A .45 is already bigger going in then the .22-.27 common hunting bullets fully expanded. A .54 bigger then .30 ones, even the magnums, coming out.
.45 doesn’t sound that much bigger then .22, but it’s four times the cross sectional size
.45 doesn’t sound that much bigger then .22, but it’s four times the cross sectional size
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In my experience the round ball mushrooms very little. Even when hitting bone. Just my experience
In part, because I have a good supply of wheel weight lead that I can cast & use for plinking & hunting out of state. Also, we can't hunt with lead here in CA so I use cast bismuth for hunting, which doesn't expand at all. Haven't hit anything with them yet, though. Then there's just inherent curiosity. Meanwhile, the collective experience of this board is a great resource. I'd be an idiot to not tap the experience of others before trying something new.
The only deer I've shot with a muzzleloader was with a Thor conical (hollow point). At about 70-80 yards, the bullet zipped through, leaving a .50 entrance and exit. I finished him at about 10 yards and recovered the bullet. It expanded perfectly but failed to pass through.
Based on what I've read so far, it would seem that roundball from pure lead is subject to the same issues as a HP pistol bullet -- drive it fast & get expansion but less penetration. Slow it down and it will penetrate without much expansion. On that jug test, it would have been good to drive that roundball to around 1900 fps a few times & see what happened.
These are .54 Hawken balls recovered from whitetails just under the skin on the off side.
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Since 2013 i've taken about 20 deer with .490 and .530 round balls. Most were bang flops, only one needed a second shot. Three or four recovered balls were flattened, one split in two. A few balls could have been loaded and fired again.
Nice thing about round balls fired from .50 caliber and larger guns: Whether or not the ball flattens or expands, that large hole/s allows for some serious leakage. The deer won't go far.
Since about 2018 i've done numerous high shoulder and high just behind the shoulder shots on deer and hogs. That's a central nervous system shot, bang flop.
Nice thing about round balls fired from .50 caliber and larger guns: Whether or not the ball flattens or expands, that large hole/s allows for some serious leakage. The deer won't go far.
Since about 2018 i've done numerous high shoulder and high just behind the shoulder shots on deer and hogs. That's a central nervous system shot, bang flop.
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