Runaway pins - flatten, bend, replace, or... ?

[l'Abeille]

The pin that holds the swivel in one of my Miroku Modelé 63s has taken to randomly falling out. When it's in, it's in good, and takes a punch to get back out, but three times in the last year I've grabbed the strap only for it to simply detach before I've even put any weight on it. Miraculously, recovered the pin every time.

I carry slung over rough terrain, with plenty of shifting, spinning, and repositioning as I navigate obstacles, and it's never gotten caught on my clothes or gear nor have I ever noticed it proud of the stock. It's the original tapered pin, tapered hole, so it only goes in one way, but despite it falling out, you can't just slide it back in by hand and need a tool to seat it, like any other pin.

My usual approach for loosey-goosey pins is to bend a very very slight wave into it so there's opposing points of contact. I've also heard of folks 'flattening' pins. But given that my use pattern encourages rotation within the hole, I'm hesitant to create any sort of projection or flange, no matter how imperceptible, for fear of routing out an even larger hole.

Thoughts, wisdom, warnings, and recommendations appreciated!

 

[Phil Coffins]

A couple of photos would encourage me to respond. Not that it would be of much value but I like to understand the project before posting an opinion.

 

[64Springer]

The pin that holds the swivel in one of my Miroku Modelé 63s has taken to randomly falling out. When it's in, it's in good, and takes a punch to get back out, but three times in the last year I've grabbed the strap only for it to simply detach before I've even put any weight on it. Miraculously, recovered the pin every time.

I carry slung over rough terrain, with plenty of shifting, spinning, and repositioning as I navigate obstacles, and it's never gotten caught on my clothes or gear nor have I ever noticed it proud of the stock. It's the original tapered pin, tapered hole, so it only goes in one way, but despite it falling out, you can't just slide it back in by hand and need a tool to seat it, like any other pin.

My usual approach for loosey-goosey pins is to bend a very very slight wave into it so there's opposing points of contact. I've also heard of folks 'flattening' pins. But given that my use pattern encourages rotation within the hole, I'm hesitant to create any sort of projection or flange, no matter how imperceptible, for fear of routing out an even larger hole.

Thoughts, wisdom, warnings, and recommendations appreciated!

I'd pay good money to see this.

Picturing you as a happy woodland fairy busting a move.

Right up there with Gene Kelly and Mary Poppins.

 

[l'Abeille]

A couple of photos would encourage me to respond. Not that it would be of much value but I like to understand the project before posting an opinion.

Totally understand.




Of course the damn pin seems very content to not budge at the moment...




It just so happens this abomination is the same make/model and already apart:


Yes, that is a candy-coating of rust on the stock itself. Pretty sure this is the first time it's been off since it left Japan in the 70s, and man, did it put up a fight.

....still haven't managed to get the barrel off.

I'd pay good money to see this.

Picturing you as a happy woodland fairy busting a move.

Right up there with Gene Kelly and Mary Poppins.

More like Peter Pan, I've been told.

The magical illusion (and any move being busted at the time) loses its sparkle when the ramrod comes sliding out, as it occasionally does when the movement-to-loading ratio is low. I did somehow manage to launch it fully clear once in a abrubt stop-spin-crouch (aka "oh look! free flint!") maneuver. It seemed like an etertinity as every soccer mom in the parking lot turned and stared, them and their offspring silently judging, as the damn thing just kept bouncing and making a ruckus like a plate that just circles impossibly long until it finally acknowledges gravity.

Thankfully in these parts the locals are accustomed to whackadoodles running around with flintlocks, so no "Karen" hysterics as one might expect when caught cutting through the little-league fields with a "high-caliber military issue assault weapon" strapped to your back.

Still haven't decided if the smattering of applause was sarcastic, or if they were as impressed as I was at the distance achieved....

 

[l'Abeille]

To clarify the pin directionality, yes, the pin is coming out towards the camera in the last picture, but on musket I'm having runaway pin issues with, it only fits out the plate side. Entirely possible / highly likely that one if not both have had pins reorientated, swapped around, replaced, mangled, forced, etc as both were employed regularly in the chasing of Redcoats for give or take 30 years before coming into my possession. No idea which, if either, orientation is "correct" - if there is even such a thing when it comes to pins?

Just thinking to myself out loud... Going all one direction is certainly more efficient from a manufacturing/maintenance point of view, and inwards towards the lock makes sense from a dont-lose-the-pin perspective** - but I could see the potential of mechanical advantage from alternating directions. Then there's always the consideration of your average enlistee and the propensity to pound things in holes regardless of where or which way they came out...​

​

Curious to know if anyone has any insight or rational favoring one way over another?​

​

**Downside is, you're much more likely to lose your mind troubleshooting a problem that is purely positional and doesn't exist when you pop the lock off. Perhaps not so coincidentally, the trigger pin on this musket also has a history of wandering off, but to the lock side. Spent an entire infuriating season trying to figure out why it fired fine from the vice and bench, but (inconsistently and seemly randomly) would stop at half when out in the field.... ​

 

[Phil Coffins]

If you could replace the pin with a flat headed nail from the lock side it couldn’t slip out to the left and a wide head would be held in by the main spring, a captive pin so to speak.

 

[2 shots]

that pin is tapered??? i would think a very slight bend should work

 

[stikshooter]

No bend ,just insert right to left and then some bees wax rubbed in .Works for me and not a pin lost !/Ed

 

[Rob M.]

The pin that holds the swivel in one of my Miroku Modelé 63s has taken to randomly falling out. When it's in, it's in good, and takes a punch to get back out, but three times in the last year I've grabbed the strap only for it to simply detach before I've even put any weight on it. Miraculously, recovered the pin every time.

I carry slung over rough terrain, with plenty of shifting, spinning, and repositioning as I navigate obstacles, and it's never gotten caught on my clothes or gear nor have I ever noticed it proud of the stock. It's the original tapered pin, tapered hole, so it only goes in one way, but despite it falling out, you can't just slide it back in by hand and need a tool to seat it, like any other pin.

My usual approach for loosey-goosey pins is to bend a very very slight wave into it so there's opposing points of contact. I've also heard of folks 'flattening' pins. But given that my use pattern encourages rotation within the hole, I'm hesitant to create any sort of projection or flange, no matter how imperceptible, for fear of routing out an even larger hole.

Thoughts, wisdom, warnings, and recommendations appreciated!

Just take out the pin , put it on back of a vice or any heavy metal and hammer it all over .Keep it fairly straight but hammer all over it then put it back in its hole . If its still loose than take back out and very slight bend but probably will not be necessary

 

[James Kibler]

Get a small wire and put a touch of CA glue on it. Work the glue in the hole and hit with the spray hardener. If you get too much, drill it out, but this isn't usually necessary. If still slips, do it again.

 

[l'Abeille]

that pin is tapered??? i would think a very slight bend should work

Just take out the pin , put it on back of a vice or any heavy metal and hammer it all over .Keep it fairly straight but hammer all over it then put it back in its hole . If its still loose than take back out and very slight bend but probably will not be necessary

A bend is my usual approach, and hammering/flattening is a suggestion I've considered, but as I said in my original post, my concern is what will happen given that the forces exerted from the strap induce rotational motion - if the pin is inclined to rotate in its hole, any distortion I introduce will become, essentially, a paddle, and further bore out the hole (albeit at a slower rate).

Get a small wire and put a touch of CA glue on it. Work the glue in the hole and hit with the spray hardener. If you get too much, drill it out, but this isn't usually necessary. If still slips, do it again.

If it were a plated repro wall-hanger, maybe. But I have been known on occasion to break things down (one might even say lock, stock and barrel) to clean and oil, so CA glue or any other sort of permanent adhesive isn't an option - can't very well go drilling out my pins every time I need to get under the trigger guard or plate!

No bend ,just insert right to left and then some bees wax rubbed in .Works for me and not a pin lost !/Ed

Beeswax, now that's a thought I hadn't considered and will definitely give a shot! Once the humidity drops / if it works its way out again, I'd be tempted to run some wire through and dribble some hot wax before pushing the pin in - though when warm that might act more as a lubricant and encourage the spinning? Perhaps a paste of wood dust and wax.... hmmm....

If you could replace the pin with a flat headed nail from the lock side it couldn’t slip out to the left and a wide head would be held in by the main spring, a captive pin so to speak.

Definitely an option on my radar should efforts to adjust the attitude of the current pin fail. If you look at my second picture, the pin that holds my trigger in has actually been replaced exactly as you suggested. This approach introduces a second problem - if/when the pin does wander, it wanders into the mechanism. Even with some creative notching of the stock to capture the head, that trigger pin/nail still occasionally twists around just right to work its way out far enough to interfere with the cams. I'd have to measure, but I suspect were I to replace the swivel pin with a flatheaded nail, it might be within the path of the mainspring should it wander - and of the two, I'd rather lose the pin than risk breaking the spring!

 

[Rob M.]

Okeydoke , never mind . Best of luck ...

 

[HSmithTX]

Jim isn’t suggesting to glue the pin in, he’s suggesting that you use a little CA to tighten the pin hole up a little. If the pin doesn’t fit after the glue use a drill to open the hole (glue) up for a snug fit on the pin. It will work, there isn’t a downside. Slight hammering of the pin or a slight bend will also do it. I’d bush the hole if it were mine, with the CA glue.

 

[Tumbledown]

I would flatten the pin ever so slightly at the point it engages the sling tab. Maybe peen the tab's hole so it closes up a bit. Create a tighter fit so the pin binds in the tab and you're not relying on the wood to retain it.

 

[satwel]

Do you have any pine trees nearby? If yes, find a blob of fresh pine sap on the trunk, one that is still clear, and smear some pine pitch along the length of the pin. A thin coating should be all that you need. Insert the pin pack into place and in about 48 hours, after the pine pitch has started to dry, the pitch will become sticky enough to prevent the pin from sliding out.