Russell Means interview

[KHickam]

I read an interview of Russell Means recently - RE LOTM - He made some pretty interesting statements. One was that Indians never burnt their enemies at the stake nor tortured them.

I remember reading - accounts in books with footnotes referencing first person period accounts of - running the gauntlet, impaling a prisoner and inserting pitch slivers in the skin and igniting them.

I realize that white men were also involved in many incidents of cruelty towards the indians - it went both ways.

But, what is the right information?

 

[J.D.]

I would believe first hand accounts of eye witnesses before I would believe the delusional ravings of a radical activist. But that's just me. :wink:

God bless

 

I read an interview of Russell Means recently - RE LOTM - He made some pretty interesting statements. One was that Indians never burnt their enemies at the stake nor tortured them.

Maybe he means they didn't do those things before they ATE THEM? (In some cases)

He's re-writing history.

 

[JayDee Flohr]

delusional ravings of a radical activist

I don't think standing up for your peoples rights and bringing attention to the wrongs done to your people makes him an activist.

Link

 

[J.D.]

Means was an active member of AIM, a radical organization that promoted more than a few....socialist platforms. Until he renounces the beleifs he espoused as an AIM member, he can and will be considered a radical. No doubt about it.

God bless

 

[fort fireman]

Look up Col. Crawford from Crawfords expedition in 1782. indians burned him at the stake. He was captured, tortured and burned at the stake.
Several men were burned at the stake after Braddocks defeat.
The answer is yes they burned people at the stake. They also ate peoples hearts to gain there power. There were many wrongs on both sides though. It wasn"t a one way street.

It's ok for Means to stand up for his people but don't change history to do. I think it would be better to try to understand why it happened than to just pretend that part of your heritage didn't exist.

 

[MikeChapin]

I don't doubt Means tried to revise history. That is what he has been doing most of his life. Indians did torture their captured enemies as did most primitive peoples.

BTW: From accounts at the time, prisoners were not burned at the stake like they were in Europe and the movies. They were tethered to the stake with their hands tied and could run around. The fire was built in a ring outside the free area and the prisoner slowly roasted while being able to run around. More entertaining I guess.

Tecumseh caught a lot of heat from the tribes when he tried to have the practice stopped.

 

[Steve Boyleston]

I don,t see the big Deal - people are cremated everyday. If you put the Shoe on the other foot it might be different. I always here Gun Toaters say I would kill somebody for breaking into my home! Thats what the Indians were doing. A bunch of wasteful whites showed up and said " this is our Land" the King said so. We screwed the Indians over many thousands of times, I respect Russell Means way more than anyone in Washington- FBI Showed up on INDIAN Land and having no Jurisdiction tried to arrest the Indians as they had done for 200 years, why shouldn't they have fought. The AIM should be applauded for doing what the Whites now are afraid to do- Stand up to the Government. "Last of the Mohicans" would have sucked without him. So when you are playing Indians and Cowboys think of him- he is the real Deal, not painted up. THE GREAT PINYONE- AIM ADMIRER

 

[vern faulkner]

As far as the cremation process goes, today we usually wait until the guest of honor is already dead. Means a world of difference to him. Vern

 

[J.D.]

BTW: From accounts at the time, prisoners were not burned at the stake like they were in Europe and the movies. They were tethered to the stake with their hands tied and could run around. The fire was built in a ring outside the free area and the prisoner slowly roasted while being able to run around. More entertaining I guess.

Tecumseh caught a lot of heat from the tribes when he tried to have the practice stopped.

And that's only a part of the torture condemned prisoners received. While they were being slowly roasted, blank loads of BP were sometimes shot into their bodies. They were prodded with flaming brands in very tender parts of their bodies, and their eyes put out, in addition to any other horrendous thing the torturers could think of.

Whites committed a lot of horrendous acts against NDNs too, but we own up to it.

God bless

 

[Claude Mathis]

I don,t see the big Deal - people are cremated everyday.

But they're already dead and nobody is cheering as they burn. :wink:

 

[Tumblernotch]

I read an interview of Russell Means recently - RE LOTM - He made some pretty interesting statements. One was that Indians never burnt their enemies at the stake nor tortured them.

I remember reading - accounts in books with footnotes referencing first person period accounts of - running the gauntlet, impaling a prisoner and inserting pitch slivers in the skin and igniting them.

I realize that white men were also involved in many incidents of cruelty towards the indians - it went both ways.

But, what is the right information?

It's obvious that he's a bald faced liar. Noble red man? Baloney. Some white men did torture and mutilate Indians. But where did they learn these tricks? The Indians. Sure, the white man pushed them off the land, but remember, these tribes pushed other weaker tribes off first. And if we don't watch ourselves, we're going to get pushed off too.

We tend to look at such atrocities in horror because we were raised in a "gentler" society that taught that such things are wrong. The Indians believed that it was right for various reasons such as the religions they followed or so that their dead enemies couldn't harm the in the after life, or to test the bravery of a captured enemy. When white settlers found their loved ones carved up and butchered like hogs or saw and lived through the various tortures inflicted, they turned their rage into revenge. Don't think for a minute I wouldn't do the same thing. Life was hard and brutal. We need to look at it through their eyes. Means and his ilk just want pity and money. They've been enjoying Uncle Sam's tit for too long and don't want to lose it.

 

[Steve Boyleston]

The Indians learned from the Whites how to torture- if you go back to early England they use a term Drawn and Quatered William Wallace was a victim, many were burned alive Joan of Arc. I like Russell Means and believe that he is a real American, not as all of us Whites. His whole culture was exterminated by the Whites, sort of like the Jews by the Nazi's. Whats the difference? We as the Whites have the Art of justifying everything we do, doesn't matter how bad. Indians still live on Reservations that the whites put them on- think about it!!!! The Great Pinyone

 

[fort fireman]

No ones trying to justitify anything. I think pretty much everyone that posted on the topic admits that terrible thing were done on both sides. The issue is Means is trying to say that something that absolutely did happen, didn't. Take it as rewriting history or simple denial or whatever you will. It did happen and to say it didn't is a lie. If you would like to associate with a liar thats fine. I don't have any room for it. :v

 

[ohio ramrod]

The past is what happened. History is what is written by the survivors and victors. People all of the time are trying to rewrite what happened to present what they wanted to happen rather than what relly did happen. Is Russell Means a radical? What made him a radical? The past is full of not so nice things and people. It is for us the living to search for the truth no matter how not nice it may be!

 

The Indians learned from the Whites how to torture-

You are incorrect, but there's no point in sharing information with someone who is close-minded. You need to investigate a little more.

P.S. The 'Natives' were practicing cannibalism here, long before the White Man showed up.

 

[Tumblernotch]

The Indians learned from the Whites how to torture- if you go back to early England they use a term Drawn and Quatered William Wallace was a victim, many were burned alive Joan of Arc. I like Russell Means and believe that he is a real American, not as all of us Whites. His whole culture was exterminated by the Whites, sort of like the Jews by the Nazi's. Whats the difference? We as the Whites have the Art of justifying everything we do, doesn't matter how bad. Indians still live on Reservations that the whites put them on- think about it!!!! The Great Pinyone

What a load of :bull: ! But I'm going to echo Jack's response rather than cast my pearls before swine. And what makes an Indian any more American than a white who was born here, especially when his ancestors have been here for nearly 300 years? There wasn't an Indian Adam and Eve planted here. The Indians evolved from other races in Asia and Central Asia and immigrated here just like everyone else. Geez...

 

[jbg]

The Indians learned from the Whites how to torture- if you go back to early England they use a term Drawn and Quatered William Wallace was a victim, many were burned alive Joan of Arc. I like Russell Means and believe that he is a real American, not as all of us Whites. His whole culture was exterminated by the Whites, sort of like the Jews by the Nazi's. Whats the difference? We as the Whites have the Art of justifying everything we do, doesn't matter how bad. Indians still live on Reservations that the whites put them on- think about it!!!! The Great Pinyone

What a load of :bull: ! But I'm going to echo Jack's response rather than cast my pearls before swine. And what makes an Indian any more American than a white who was born here, especially when his ancestors have been here for nearly 300 years? There wasn't an Indian Adam and Eve planted here. The Indians evolved from other races in Asia and Central Asia and immigrated here just like everyone else. Geez...

Well said.

 

[Claude Mathis]

The Indians learned from the Whites how to torture- if you go back to early England they use a term Drawn and Quatered William Wallace was a victim, many were burned alive Joan of Arc. I like Russell Means and believe that he is a real American, not as all of us Whites. His whole culture was exterminated by the Whites, sort of like the Jews by the Nazi's. Whats the difference? We as the Whites have the Art of justifying everything we do, doesn't matter how bad. Indians still live on Reservations that the whites put them on- think about it!!!! The Great Pinyone

What a load of :bull: ! But I'm going to echo Jack's response rather than cast my pearls before swine. And what makes an Indian any more American than a white who was born here, especially when his ancestors have been here for nearly 300 years? There wasn't an Indian Adam and Eve planted here. The Indians evolved from other races in Asia and Central Asia and immigrated here just like everyone else. Geez...

True. I've often said that the Europeans were merely the latest, largest, most technologically advanced wave of immigrants to North America. Everyone came from somewhere else.

Sometimes it's not who gets there first, but who's remaining in the end. The story is still unfolding.

 

[tg]

"
The Indians learned from the Whites how to torture"

Piney...you really need to start giving references to your claims, they are becomimg something else.