Safe loading technique - when to prime.

[Ironoxide]

I'm fairly new to flintlocks as I've been shooting my first flint pistol for few weeks.

I've been thinking about the commonly accepted safety rule of priming the pan as the last thing done before cocking the weapon and firing. First I have to say I'm using one kind of powder for both loading and priming. Its granularity is close to a 2f-3f mix. So If I load the barrel first I end up with some of the powder escaping through the flash hole into the pan anyway. Therefore while being aware not to point the pistol at myself or others I started priming first (with flint at half cock) and loading then.

I know this is contrary to commonly accepted safety advice and I saw youtube videos of others using a special pick to close the flash hole so they can prime last.

Also, I read somewhere that back in the day military muskets were primed first and loaded then.

So my question is, where did the idea that it is much safer to prime the gun last come from? Is it done just in case the cock falls from half cock by itself and creates sparks while the gun is being loaded? I can imagine this could happen with a faulty lock, but following the rule not to point the gun at oneself should be sufficient to prevent serious injury. Or is priming first dangerous in some other way I'm not recognising?

 

[EC121]

People find all sorts of ways to screw up. One time I saw some folks loading jacketed bullets without a patch at a match. A flinter can go off without priming if the sparks bounce right.
The open frizzen probably came from match shooting safety procedures where a lot of people are moving around the firing line. Safety procedures would keep people from walking behind others with a primed or capped gun. If you shoot by yourself, it would be your choice, but a range officer would be all over you at a match if you primed r capped at the bench or loaded with a closed frizzen.
I use those litte dental brushes(in the dental floss area of the store) in the vent to let the air our of the barrel and stop the powder then poke a little priming in the hole at the line. Paint the handle of the brush orange to see the plug easily.

 

[Ironoxide]

People find all sorts of ways to screw up. One time I saw some folks loading jacketed bullets without a patch at a match. A flinter can go off without priming if the sparks bounce right.
The open frizzen probably came from match shooting safety procedures where a lot of people are moving around the firing line. Safety procedures would keep people from walking behind others with a primed or capped gun. If you shoot by yourself, it would be your choice, but a range officer would be all over you at a match if you primed r capped at the bench or loaded with a closed frizzen.
I use those litte dental brushes(in the dental floss area of the store) in the vent to let the air our of the barrel and stop the powder then poke a little priming in the hole at the line. Paint the handle of the brush orange to see the plug easily.

Just to comment as you mentioned capping. I think this rule makes much more sense to me with caplock guns, because a cap can go off if bumped sufficiently - also if you cap it first you block the air escape through the nipple so you're making loading more difficult for no obvious benefit and the process is made less safe to a higher degree than with flinters. So the whole calculation doesn't look good for capping first. However, with priming flinters, it is more convenient to do it first and I lean towards considering the lessening of safety marginal.

I agree, that when you have lots of people around (at a match) it is probably better to prime last as it gives you a visual representation of who has finished loading too.

 

[Zonie]

The idea of priming the pan last comes from the idea that if the pan is full of powder and the cock falls for any reason the pan will flash. If one was in the process of dumping a powder load down the barrel or if the powder was already in the barrel when this happened it would ignite. Sears and half cock notches have been known to fail so a falling cock is not something that could never happen.

Speaking of the cock falling unexpectedly, people need to know, a flintlock gun can fire even when there is no powder in the pan. All it takes is just one of the hundreds of sparks that are made when the flint hits the frizzen, to find its way thru the vent hole into the powder charge.

IMO, the only really safe way to set the lock when your loading the gun is to have the frizzen and pan cover is fully open and the cock in the fired position.
This is the only position that will not accidentally create a spark.
Of course, if the frizzen and pan cover is fully open, it would be impossible for the pan to hold any priming powder. For that matter, any of the main charge that leaks thru the vent hole will also fall to the ground.

IMO, the correct proceedure is: Frizzen/pan cover open, cock in fired position, pour main powder charge, load shot, bullet or patched ball, set the cock to half cock, prime the pan and close the frizzen, bring the cock to full cock, aim, fire.

I might add, the idea of priming the pan first and then loading the barrel comes from the military. They were using paper cartridges which makes it difficult to "save some powder for the prime" after loading the barrel.
The military was interested in firepower, not safety so even though having the pan primed before loading is dangerous they really didn't care. Loading rapidly was all that mattered.

 

[EC121]

Personally, I don't want my dainty little fingers anywhere near the muzzle of primed rifle.

 

[SDSmlf]

Do as Zonie suggests. And place a feather, wooden or plastic tooth pick in the touch hole if you are worried powder coming out. With the frizzen down, the pan charged and the gun at half cock you at the minimum will have your hand over the muzzle to load it. What happens if you bump or catch the cock on something while ramming home your patched ball? Could end up with a hole where you don’t want or need one. And the habit will get you tossed from some ranges and disqualified from matches for a safety violation. Crazy stuff happens.

Not muzzleloader related, but break a safety rule like no loaded guns in the vehicle and sometimes karma pays a visit. https://abcnews.go.com/US/dog-shoots-man-man-survives-defends-dog-good/story?id=58898352

 

[sawyer04]

Don't believe common sense would allow me to prime before loading. I load, cradle the weapon in folded arms, barrel in safe direction, and prime, carefully. Wouldn't hurt if the pan pre-fired, but the embarrassment would be humiliating. An old feller told me " you screw up, just remember you'll be dead for a long time". I have seen a fellow cap his rifle before loading and an old grey beard took his rifle away from him with an explanation of how come his beard was grey and wasn't because he associated with Morons during his life. I have remembered for 70 years these incidents and still draws a laugh.

 

[Sidney Smith]

I always load with the frizzen open, cock in the full down as if just fired position. Then gun gets placed on shooting bags muzzle down range cock to half cock, pick flash hole, prime, close frizzen, sit down, cock to full cock, set rear trigger, and fire.

IMO, there is no logical reason to prime first. That practice will lead to an accident some day.

 

[Grenadier1758]

When military units were firing in files at other military formations safety was not a primary concern. Firing rapidly was a concern so priming first was the military practice.

I will prime first when shooting blanks, but in competitions firing round balls, I prime last. And this is a practice I follow even though I have not seen my unit firing blank loads have one go off when priming first.

 

[Ironoxide]

I'll be using a toothpick in the flash hole from now on and prime last. I think one could argue that it is possible to prime first and still be safe, but I decided it sets a bad example if I was for example at my club's range and someone brought their children, they got interested in black powder and then repeated what they saw.

 

[Patrick Thomas]

There it is!

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I'll be using a toothpick in the flash hole from now on and prime last. .

You didn't ask, but a blunt pick is better than one that has a taper. It gives the flash a more open channel.
Flintlocklar

 

[biliff]

The military primed first because the prime came from the paper cartridge. Tear cartridge, prime, close frizzen, switch ends and finish loading with the rest of the cartridge going down the barrel. Priming last would have involved additional steps and slowed the process. As others have stated, rapidity of fire was the primary concern vs increased safety.

In our modern setting, we load with frizzen open and hammer down and don’t prime until on the line with muzzle down range. This procedure increases the number of actions required for the gun to fire, which acts as a safety buffer. Unfortunately, with muzzleloaders, your hand is, by necessity, in front of the muzzle while loading. You therefore have a fully loaded and primed gun pointing at your hand when ramming the ball. While an AD may seem remote doing it your way, it only takes a dropped gun or hooking the hammer on something to ruin your (and possibly somebody else’s) day. In addition it violates most ranges/rondies safety rules and can get you booted.

If you’re worried about leaking powder, the suggested feather/toothpick will solve that.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Speaking of the cock falling unexpectedly, people need to know, a flintlock gun can fire even when there is no powder in the pan. All it takes is just one of the hundreds of sparks that are made when the flint hits the frizzen, to find its way thru the vent hole into the powder charge.

IMO, the only really safe way to set the lock when your loading the gun is to have the frizzen and pan cover is fully open and the cock in the fired position.

Just to reiterate the above and illustrate further....,
As mentioned the Military method was a combat loading procedure. It was for a very loose ball, and the rammer was almost thrown down on top of the ball and empty cartridge tube, the weight and force combined to move the ball to the powder, while..., the musket butt was NOT grounded, but held a few inches off the ground. Most folks, even us military reenactors, don't practice this much since we shoot blanks and don't ram them... but there was and is a reason for the butt not being grounded, and it's not as some of the guys tell the tourists, to keep the buttplate shiny....

So, even the workings of a fully functional lock, can become dirty....
While the lock is fully functional, the internal wood of the lock mortise can swell and press upon the fully functional internal parts of the lock...
Both of these problems can and often do happen simultaneously.
Not to mention the breaking of internal lock parts, unbeknown to the flintlock shooter...,

So with any or all of the above, sometimes that half-cock notch isn't exactly secure, and there the shooter is with a primed pan and a shut frizzen, ramming a patched ball instead of a loose musket ball, down a fully loaded barrel. Is the vibration enough to cause that lock to slip and..."go off half cocked" ??? If it is, your fingers are tightly grasping a wooden ramrod, that is in contact with a piece of lead, and both are going to come out pretty fast, with the wooden rammer probably fragmenting into high velocity shards, so not only your fingers, but where is your face in relation to the muzzle? Not over the muzzle of course..., but within less than 12" I'd say. Don't forget as the rifle get's dirty, even if you swab, you have to apply a little more bump to get that ball to move....

So it's very rare following the safety prime procedure that you see a flinter go off half-cocked and doing more than giving the user an unwanted surprise, and the boys and girls using caplocks normally have theirs pretty much benched and pointed toward the targets when they cap, so it's even less of a problem, other than embarrassment and concern.

LD

 

[hanshi]

Priming is my last step in loading. I want my fingers well away from the muzzle by then.

 

[tenngun]

In my younger days I did try military cartridges loaded in military fashion . And have shot in a competition that way that way.
I watched Ted Spring ( writer of severe sketch books on F&I) get off 22 shots in a timed 3:45 seconds. British army requirement were for 15 shots in that time, one shot every 15 seconds 4 shots a min
As I said I was younger and fools do have good guarding angles some times.
Today I would Berber try it. Load, then prime at the line.

 

[Darkhorse]

I use hammer stalls when hunting, actually I use one most of the time. When loading after the pan has been primed I put a clean hammer stall on the frizzen face, close the frizzen and cock or half cock the weapon. The hammer stall stays on the frizzen until just before I take a shot, then it comes off and is dropped out of the way. It is secured to the rifle with cord or leather strap so it doesn't have far to fall.
A hammer stall works good as a safety on rifles without safeties. I'm surprised more shooters don't take the time to learn to use one.

 

[S.Kenton]

I use hammer stalls when hunting, actually I use one most of the time. When loading after the pan has been primed I put a clean hammer stall on the frizzen face, close the frizzen and cock or half cock the weapon. The hammer stall stays on the frizzen until just before I take a shot, then it comes off and is dropped out of the way. It is secured to the rifle with cord or leather strap so it doesn't have far to fall.
A hammer stall works good as a safety on rifles without safeties. I'm surprised more shooters don't take the time to learn to use one.

That’s the same method I use while hunting. I’m not sure if that’s acceptable at Rondys though.

 

[Marshhawk]

Thanks, guys. Very useful information. Haven't used my old CVA flinty in many years, but pulled it from the safe to hunt with this year while my eyes are still good enough. The open frizzen-hammer down while reloading idea makes perfect safety sense and I will encourage it among others.

 

[hanshi]

I do the same thing as Darkhorse as well. That little leather cover makes a fine safety.