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Safety Catch?

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Josh Smith

45 Cal.
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Hello,

In the Flintlock Forum, there is a thread about a "stalking safety."

I don't shoot a flinter (yet), so I'm curious as to how ya'll handle this on caplocks.

I personally just use the half-cock notch. I've seen where manufacturers do not recommend it, but honestly, I fail to see how any of the half-cock notches would fail unless the sear or tumbler broke -- a very unlikely occurrence.

More unlikely than the sear or tumbler breaking would be shooting something important if either did bust, if you're following muzzle safety.

So, I guess, if I'm stalking some critter or other, why should I not carry half cocked and primed?

Thanks,

Josh
 
I use a little piece of leather under the hammer, not much further to pull the hammer back from all the way down, than half cock . . . the leather acts lick a cushion.
 
We only carry them capped and half cocked when we're alone. If there's another hunter walking with you down a trail the one in the lead gets to cap, but the guy behind doesn't. My concern with exposed hammer guns is a fall. Snag that hammer as you go down, and I bet the odds of something breaking and dropping the hammer goes up. And we hunt in "fall" country, between steepness and slick ground.

One of my hunting pards is a former SWAT and undercover drug agent. He's an absolute Nazi about gun safety as a result of tense moments with lots of loaded guns. He'd flat butt-stroke your face with his rifle if you capped a gun behind him on the trail, or didn't uncap as you walked up to him. And he certainly would never hunt with you again. I like his thinking and his Rx for the miscreants.
 
I usually do like you Josh and just use half cock. I do remove the cap though if I`m somewhere that I`m unsure of my footing.
 
If you have access to spent cartridge casings, I think you will find that an M-1 Carbine cartridge casing can be cut down in length and make into a safety cap that fits down over the percussion cap and nipple, so that you can walk with the hammer down on this "Safety", to hold it in place. Tie the casing with a strong nylon string to your trigger guard, and you have a "safety that prevents the gun from firing even in a fall, yet can be removed with no real effort and allowed to drop, and hang from the trigger guard on the string for easy retrieval. I know one man so concerned about noise of the brass casing clanking against the barrel, lockplate, or trigger guard, that he glued thin leather( Chamois cloth from the auto store) around the casing and on its top, to deaden it. The Cap also makes your nipple stay dry in the rain.

I saw on the Dixie Gun Works site that they are offering a commercially made brass "safety similar in design as to what you can make with a hacksaw, and a bit of time.

I would rather my hammer rest on something sturdy, like the web of a brass casing, than on a piece of leather, no matter how thick.

I also have used those soft, pink erasers you buy to put on pencils when that eraser wears down, as a cover over the nipple and percussion cap. I don't think they are particularly safer than the leather pad, however. :hmm:

The main safety issue is MUZZLE CONTROL, and keeping a finger, or your thumb, or whole hand behind the hammer, if its in the half cock notch, and your FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER, as you move through the woods. As long as your hand keeps the hammer from moving rearward, it can't escape the half-cock notch, and fall on the nipple. If your fingers are OFF the trigger, and you have good muzzle control, you can fall and not fire off the gun either.

You don't have to live in Alaska to hunt in up and down country, where the ground is slick. We have ditches here on the flatlands, that are just as steep sided, and just as slippery to negotiate. We have bluffs along the major rivers that rise hundreds of feet above the water, with steep slopes, and all kinds of ways to slip and fall. If you are going to hunt, its Not WHETHER you are going to slip and fall, But WHEN you are going to slip and fall- the next time!

So, a religious devotion to watching where your muzzle points, and where every one else's muzzles point is always appropriate, and appreciated. I once fired an ISPC match ( timed, speed, multiple targets, from multiple locations and barriers), with a State Police officer timing me. When I finished, he told me I could shoot with him any time, as he had never seen anyone else put the manual safety on my guns faster, or get my trigger finger off the trigger faster than I do.

People Notice good safety practices.

They also will notice if you don't use good safety skills, ALL THE TIME.


I had a nationally known firearms training instructor give my group of students the rules for carrying firearms on his range. It was a "HOT RANGE", meaning that no gun was to be holstered unless it was, loaded with a round in the chamber, and a full magazine in the gun, cocked and locked. He then told us that if we ever pointed a gun at him, he would kill us, as he must assume that the gun is loaded, and that the only reason we are pointing a loaded gun at him is to shoot him.

That will sober you up- I promise.

I feel the same way about hunting with partners who are carrying loaded guns, too. I too am a very sober fanatic about gun safety- just like BB's friend.

I don't Trust mechanical safeties. They are "Feel Good " mechanical devices that can fail.

My Eleventh Commandment of Gun Safety has always been:

"YOU ARE THE ONLY SAFETY ON A GUN THAT WORKS".

That trigger finger should be either behind the trigger guard( and therefore blocked from quickly reaching the trigger), OR should be stuck straight forward, along the stock, above the trigger guard and trigger, OR wrapped around the front of the trigger guard, depending on the gun and how long your fingers are.

With the necessity to manually cock an exposed hammer on a gun, there is also plenty of time to get your trigger finger( Index finger) on the trigger at the same time. :hmm: :thumbsup: :shocked2: Watch that muzzle, and make sure that hammer can' move at all, any time, and you won't have a problem even during a fall.

Oh, you need to LEARN how to fall forward, backward, and to both sides, protecting the gun from striking objects and the ground. Use a Broom to practice this in your living room, and then out in the yard, before you even think of risking a firearm( unloaded, of course) in practicing how to fall"Safely". I have slipped, I have fallen, many times, but my training has protected my guns from damage, and from any Accidental Discharge as a result of the fall. Only my "dignity" has been harmed. :grin:
 
Paul,

All good advice! :thumbsup:

As far as the nationally known Instructor's talk about someone pointing a gun at him: I've been known to do the same thing at the PPC League that I run! I tell them all, "Don't point a gun at me, cause I'll have to shoot Ya!" I tell the Newbies, "Don't shoot ME, Don't shoot my Kid, Don't shoot another participant, Don't shoot my car! If you screw-up and do any of the aforementioned, please feel free to shoot yourself!

Seriously though, it does make everyone stop and think about where their muzzles are pointed AT ALL TIMES!

Dave
 
This is a unwise way to handle a man with a loaded gun. First off how can a man back you up in dangrous country with a unloaded Gun. And as for a rifle stroke to the face He better kill me first stroke because Im sure gonna protect my self and Im the only one with a capped and loaded gun. Any court in the nation would say what ever happen after the butt stroke to the face is self defense. ANY strike with a batton,rifle or other object to the head is deadly force.The same level of force I can use according to the standard police Use of Force Continuum is me using deadly force.So again You and him needs to rethink your response to a non deadly threat. How about a verbal command Like Dont cover me with your muzzle or something like Uncap before coming into camp. :hatsoff:
 
I'm sure the butt stroke would only be the first of many steps. And these guys aren't just carrying a muzzleloader if it came to that. And I'm sure the lawyers could make a living on this like they do anything else.

Nuff said. The point is, they've been in tense shooting situations with lots of guns on hand, and they're Nazi's about safety. They won't put up with it, and if you're not in arm reach they'd just turn around and walk off. And leave your hiney to walk home. I happen to agree with them.
 
Yeah, let's just not be butt stroking anyone. If I can't use the muzzleloader right off, I'd use the 1911, knife, H2H, big ol' branch, whatever is handy. Anything is a weapon.

I'm too familiar with what these folks learn. Not Billy Badass here, but I can, and have, countered most of it.

That said, kudos to you friend. He did a difficult job that not many can, or would, do. I'd like to talk to him sometime and maybe we can exchange funny anecdotes or something. :thumbsup:
 
To each there own.But Dont be suprised when someones response to deadly force is deadly force mine would be. and swat is not the baddest turd on the block.
 
I seem to recall that one of the ATF Waco raiders was shot by a teammate while still in the stock trailer and we definitely saw another discharge his handgun while climbing up a ladder.
But to the question here, I check my locks and assure myself that the half-cock works properly and then I use it. I can't see the point of walking around with an unprimed gun.
 
Now THERE'S the Pete I know and LOVE! :rotf: :haha: :shocked2: .

Seriously though, I don't think that anybody wants to be swept with anything! Muzzle control is the key and always will be!

Dave
 
I personally know someone that was carrying his caplock at half cock with the cap on the nipple and he was walking holding the rifle with one hand in the middle of the rifle. As he was walking he let the rifle swing and the hammer caught the cargo pocket on his pants and the rifle discharged. He was alone at the time and no one was hurt and it scared the manure out of him (as it should have.) He stopped hunting with a caplock after that.

There is no substitute for proper firearm safety and muzzle control.

Bob
 
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