Sam Fadala's Book " Black Powder Handbook"

[CaptainKirk]

I'm with the few that like Fadala. I love his writing style, and his books guided me though the murky waters of one new to muzzleloading back in the '80s....when I couldn't get a straight answer out of the salesman that sold me my first BP revolver!
Me: What size ball do I need?
Clerk: I don't really know; try .451's or .457's
(You think there might be a difference here?)
Me: What type of powder should I use?
Clerk: Black powder.
(duh! I meant 2F or 3F....he had no idea)
Me: How many grains would you recommend?
Clerk: You can't blow up a black powder gun. As much as you can fit in the cylinder.
(Oh really? You can't blow up a BP gun?)
Sam Fadala's book had me buying what I needed with the confidence to shoot the gun on my own a week later. Before we talk about tossing the books out, let's remember these weren't written yesterday, and got a lot of newbies shooting safely for the first time in the days before the internet.
And besides..if you still want to throw your Sam book away, I'll take it off your hands!

 

[GBG]

Thanks to this forum, today we can personally ask master gunsmiths, engineers and life-long hunters a specific question at any time. In the early '70s, the Only source of information I had available was my grandfather's recollection of stories about the Civil War from his grandfather, and the few original guns that were still in use when he was a child. The DGW catalog was a gold mine but I don't remember early editions mentioning ROT, groove depth, pressure tested loads ect. When I found the Lyman BPHB (with charges,velocities,pressures) 15 years after the original publication, that was a real treasure. I have Fadala's Loading Manual and if for no other reason than he gives max charges and repeatedly warns against overloads, I wish it had been around 35-40 years ago for the new BP shooter.

 

[ike]

Thanks for all of the information. When I read this statement I really thought that it was not true of todays rifles. I have enjoyed reading this book. As with all information written, one must use your judgement as to what is truth, or ask for the knowledge of others.

 

[Mike Brooks]

What has Fadala written in his book(s) that is so erroneous, specifically?

I know of some small caliber suggested loads that raised my eyebrows, but.......

Other than that, what's he written that is so off-base? :idunno:

Respectfully and non-argumentatively, Skychief.

Anybody? :idunno:

Never owned it, just thumbed through it at the book store, that was enough to know he didn't have a clue what he was writing about.

 

[varsity07840]

With the HEAVY loads I remember him writing about, he probably did wear out barrels quick.
JDD

If I remember correctly, he was big on getting 2,000 FPS out of his short barreled .54 Lancaster using 2F powder.

Duane

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The problem with the book is that although it has gone through many editions, the overall information hasn't really changed much, and it was penned more than three decades ago (iirc). When he penned the book it was the ONLY one of its sort, and so was pretty good information, but as time has gone on that information has been found (for example the barrel accuracy) to be less accurate or actually incorrect. That's all.

I remember having a copy, it may be around here still, but the information is rather dated. Of course my copy would be around 30 years old too. :grin: I don't think there is much actually wrong with the work, just that better information is available today, AND you don't know which edition is being read by which person you talk to, right?

Another example..., I have both of Mark Baker's A Pilgrim's Journey books, and when his articles were written it was good information, but reading his oldest articles today, with our current information as a comparison, can be amusing..., Mark Baker thinks so too btw :grin:

I don't think the fault is Mr. Fadala's..., I think the fault is the publisher's, who are concerned with selling books. I don't know if they ever really check the content against current information, and asked Mr. Fadala to do an indepth review and update. For a while the "editions" were simply updates in the back of the books on the available factory made rifles, shotguns, and handguns..., no information changed.

LD

 

[ryoung14]

I'm also a fan of Fadala's...with a few qualifications. I have his Handbook, his BP Loading Manual, and the most recent Lyman BP Loading Manual in which the written articles are all Sam's. The biggest complaint is that much of the written info is rehashed from book to book; but with all three having the same basic topic, that's not really a fair gripe.

Like others, his writing made it possible for me to start shooting BP safely and competently. I only wish I started reading his BP books earlier. Maybe I'd have jumped on the ML bandwagon sooner.

Regarding his BP Loading manual, I believe he personally chronographed each of the loads for each of the guns listed in the manual. By any measure, that was a prodigious amount of work...and punishment (considering how heavy some of the loads were). Just cleaning all those firearms after firing them would be a Herculean task. That may be why his writings haven't been updated; it's just not fun for him anymore.

 

[dc7x64]

Having just recently gotten back in to muzzleloaders after a 30 year hiatus, I just happened to dig up Sam's Black Powder Loading Manual which was a Christmas gift along with a brand new Navy Arms Morse Rifle! I am 42 now and got the book when I was 12! It says in the About The Author section inside front cover that Sam has been shooting black powder firearms for about 13 years. Not a lot of years of experience compared to today's standards. That would have put him getting into muzzleloaders in the early to mid 70's. According to some of you Old Timers on the forum that was the "Resurgency period" for muzzleloaders, after the Jeremiah Johnson movie. If some of his stuff seems "quirky" I'll give him a break, he was learning too! And I will have to agree that it can help someone who just does'nt have a clue :idunno:

 

How about small things like the picture I remember of him loading a rifle directly from his powder horn. The velocities he spoke of were, and are, unrealistic even by some of the *&#@line rifles of today. He would have to show me, and I'm not from Missourie, and I would bet a dime to a dollar he couldn't, that some of the things he claimed were real.
Mark

 

[ryoung14]

The problem with the book is that although it has gone through many editions, the overall information hasn't really changed much, and it was penned more than three decades ago (iirc).

Not to pick on you, LD, but within the context of this site and its "Old ways", that sentence is loaded with irony. Change more recent than 18th century isn't welcome to many in this quarter.

Besides, if he did update his writings, the changes would most likely address inlines, 209 ignition, and powders that aren't even gray, let alone black. Maybe Sam doesn't care to go in that direction either.

 

[larry wv]

I read and have one of his books. Thought it was a good read. And as others said BP loading and shooting info was pretty scarce back then. I would shake his hand if I met him. Larry

 

[mhb]

I've known Sam for about 15 years, and consider him a friend. I built several rifles for him and his brother.
He really is a widely experienced shooter and hunter, and a good professional writer.
He doesn't know everything, but doesn't tell more than he actually knows. O.K. - I did have to tell him when his first edition of the Lyman BP handbook came out that whale oil and sperm oil are not the same thing...
I do believe that his BP books are a real help to the beginning BP shooter.
Old, experienced BP shooters already know much of what Sam wrote in his books. And they tend to be a bit crotchety, finding fault where no real problem exists :->
mhb - Mike

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Not to pick on you, LD, but within the context of this site and its "Old ways", that sentence is loaded with irony. Change more recent than 18th century isn't welcome to many in this quarter.

No, I think you misunderstood me or I was opaque in my meaning..., the available information for traditional muzzleloading arms has changed over time, but the book(s) he has written, penned more than 30 years ago, have not kept up with what we know today, in my opinion. For example 35 years ago when I first read his book, folks talked about "seasoning" steel ML rifle barrels with T/C bore butter. We know now that worked with the much softer, hand forged, iron barrels of the past, but not with the modern steel barrels you or I would purchase today. 30 years ago you had in factory made guns two twist rates..., 1:48 and 1:60..., unless you were lucky. You had four retail bullet styles, round ball, T/C Maxi-Ball, T/C Maxi-hunter, and Minnies. Now you have multiple sources of barrels with standard twists running from 1:24, to 1:48, 1:56, 1:60, 1:66, and 1:70 not to mention the folks that will make you a barrel with a custom twsit. Plus you also have in projectiles Hornady, Ball-etts, Buffalo Bullets, Lee Real, to mention a few. The T/C manual gave you loads for two patched ball when using a .45 caliber rifle for deer..., they don't do that anymore.

So..., I am not suggesting that he should be talking about inlines and mea culpa if I gave that impression, but there are many more variations on flintlocks and caplocks today than in the 1970's where you rarely found more than T/C, Lyman, and CVA plains rifles, Dixie & Pedersoli flintlock longrifles, and some CW rifled muskets and revolvers thrown in.

The edition of the book that I owned seemed rather caplock-of-the-fur-trade-era oriented (which was mostly what folks were into..., Jeremiah Johnson and The Mountain Men were the movies of the time period with BP guns), with a chapter thrown to flintlocks, and to ACW weapons, to sorta round it out.

LD

 

[hanshi]

i do remember the 1000 shots and accuracy starts going away part.
[/quote]


I think he generally knows his stuff pretty well but the 1000 shots stuff is for the birds.

 

[ChrisHarris]

:rotf:

Somebody gave me that book and I just cracked it open today. As a newbie to ML, I find it has some good information that I have not yet found on the internet. Not that it can't be found on the internet, just that I hadn't thought about that particular subject yet, so had not even looked for an answer yet.

I know this for certain.... I'm more of an idiot when it comes to black powder than him. So I'll keep reading. :hatsoff:

 

[smoothy]

Sam Fadala was also a contributing editor to "Muzzleloading Hunter Magazine". The first issue was July 1985. But this magazine was defunct in less than a year. I also have the August and December issue. Can't even Google it up. Anyway, I wish the magazine would have caught on as Sam's articles were interesting. It was published by The North American Muzzleloading Hunters Association. Most of the guns used in the articles back then were sidelock percussion rifles from TC, CVA, Dixie Gunworks and Navy Arms. Back then muzzleloader hunting was being called the fastest growing sport. My hats off to Sam Fadala for helping this prilgrim. :hatsoff:

 

[RedFeather]

I've got a couple of Fadala's books, one of which is the Complete Shooter, circa 1988. It was and still remains a pretty good introductory read. That's really all these books are. As someone here said, before the world wide web, they were about all we had. (And the web has been a font of misinformation, too, most much worse than any of Fadala's errors.) As I said before, at least he's promoting the sport. Just look at today's line up of rifle offerings from gun comapnies who were the staples back in the 70's and 80's. Aside from Pedersoli, who's making flintlocks and traditional percussion rifles? Even Dixie's catalog has shrunk by what seems 50% from when I used to get it thirty years ago. Fact is, quite a few black powder shooters, and that's not aficionados like the members here, don't give two hoots about rate of twist, load composition, patch thickness, how to cast ball and so on. All they want is a cheap gun that can shoot whatever the kid behind the counter has to offer in way of sabots, pistol bullets and powder pellets - the bigger the better - to extend deer season. Off they go with enough knock down power to snooker an elephant. At least writers like Dr. Sam are still flying a somewhat tattered flag these days. Yeah, he talks of the "modern" guns, but that's part of his book market. Guess he has to earn his bread like the rest of us. I'm sure he hasn't grown rich from it.

 

[necchi]

I do believe that his BP books are a real help to the beginning BP shooter.
Old, experienced BP shooters already know much of what Sam wrote in his books.

Well said,
I think that's what happened for me.
Most of what he had in the book didn't do much for me, I was already beyond most of that stuff.

Good stuff for the beginner, but then a shooter develops his own group/set of lessons from experiance and a technique starts to form.

That's a big thing about Trad ML stuff, there are very few carved in stone right ways to do something.
When someone comes off with "This is the way it is" it can be hard to swallow.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Sam was about the most prolific black powder writer for years. Before the internet and the number of grey beards to show newbies "the way" there are few if any people who could explain muzzle loading so well. I certainly didn't like everything he wrote, nor do I agree with everything he wrote, but on the whole, he probably contributed more to muzzle loading in general, back in the early rebirth in the early and mid 1970's.
On the whole, I owe him gratitude for guiding me through those first 50 or 60 shots, when I had one of his articles open on the range bench and studied it before taking each step in loading and shooting my flintlock pistol. (which came with no shooting instructions)
If you are the type to throw the baby out with the bath water, have at it. I believe in taking the good I can from what a writer or author has to offer and ignoring the rest. He is an outdoor writer. Actually a classic outdoor writer from before the days of ad nauseum infomercial articles peddled by most of the news stand gun mags.

To deny the worth of what he had to offer at the time and has had to offer over the years, based on a single sentence about barrel wear, is pretty myopic. If anyone actually believes that statement will a gun blow up, will it cause an unsafe action, Heck no.

Almost weekly I see posts about burning 150 or 200 grains of faux powder and $5 elephant skinner bullets as a white tail load. With no regard to whether the gun is a modern unnmentionable or a Chinese Side lock with 1/16th inch barrel walls at the breech. Some poor fool is not going to know the difference and is going to lose his face relying on such misinformation. That is an example of very dangerous and needs to be called out.

My light bench gun has over three thousand shots easily. maybe multiple times that. I don't use emery cloth patching. So Sam may have been off there, so what?

 

[morehops]

When I first started ML'ing, any information was scarce and good info was very hard to come by. Fadala's book was at least something in print you could refer to even if it was a bit rudamentary at times. Heck the guy wrote a book! He must know sumptin', right?
There were so many nimrods and greenhorns dispensing mis-information at the time that anything that seemed reliable was welcome. At the range I was told I "don't need no patch, it'll shoot jes fine" and an 1858 Remington NA revolver couldn't kill a deer "cause you can catch that ball in your hand at 50 yards". That fellow changed his mind when I showed him what a .45 cal RB did to a 3" sapling :grin: