WANTED Sante Fe or Ithaca Hawken

[BP Addict]

I'm looking for either a Sante Fe Hawken (.53 caliber) from Allen Arms or Western Arms company. I would also consider a 54 caliber Ithaca Hawken. I prefer the former as I already have a ball mold. Although, I've read that the Ithaca is a better representation.

I don't have an authentic Hawken copy in my collection. While I usually shoot flintlocks, I believe I should have one of these, right?

Thanks!

Walt

 

[Einsiedler]

Were the Ithaca rifles offered in .54 calibre? All the ones I owned, sold, or ever ran across were only .50 calibre.

 

[andy52]

Were the Ithaca rifles offered in .54 calibre? All the ones I owned, sold, or ever ran across were only .50 calibre.

No, they were actually 53.s I own one.

 

[akroguy]

The Santa Fe Hawken is a GEM of a rifle. I had one in the 80's. Being young and dumb, traded it for a Uberti SAA in 44/40. Oh well, it suited my needs at the time. That rifle was wicked accurate. Good luck finding one!

 

[Einsiedler]

No, they were actually 53.s I own one.

My Ithaca circa 1979 was a .50. As were the others I came in contact with
Are you sure you might not have the Ithaca confused with the Allen Arms, (Western Arms) Santa Fe? They were .53. Back in the 80’s I sold a boat load of them. Hornady started swaging .520 round balls due to their popularity.
I owned a pair of consecutive numbered Jed Smith Commemoratives. Nice rifles. But damn long LOP.
Bit of trivia. Leonard Allen of Allen arms. Santa Fe, was married to Aldo Uberti’s sister.

 

[Foolishhand]

Walt,
I don’t have a Santa Fe or Ithaca, but what you might be interested in is a Cherry Cornes kit that I bought, unassembled, from Bret Selb and sent to John Bergmann for assembly. It‘s 54 cal, percussion, full stock with a really nice piece of maple. It has the Cherry Corner locks (Cherry Corner was bought out by Ithaca as you probably know in the late 70’s as I recall. My old huntin pard had an Ithaca Hawken and I let get away from me when he passed away in 1980.) Anyway if you think you might be interested, let me know and I can send you some photos of the rifle, she has a few hunting “scars” but nothing serious, just a few scratches and scrapes. Bore is excellent (Douglass barrel I believe) and she shoots good. Only thing I would do is remove the set trigger screw and shorten it a bit, just never gotten around to it!
Let me know at your convenience if you want some photos.
Best Regards,
Bob “Foolishhand” Shape

PS- Also have a GRRW Leman in 54 that I might part with if that interests you at all….

 

[LME]

I own a Ithaca hawkin and it is a .54 cal. ?

 

[BP Addict]

Were the Ithaca rifles offered in .54 calibre? All the ones I owned, sold, or ever ran across were only .50 calibre.

You may be correct. I might have to do a little more research. I do know that 50 would be too heavy with a 1" barrel.

Thanks!

Walt

 

[Einsiedler]

I own a Ithaca hawkin and it is a .54 cal. ?

Awesome to know. I had never seen one in .54 calibre. All the early ones I ever saw were .50’s. Like I said including the one I owned. The one I had I obtained in ‘79. Before Navy Arms got them. Thanks for clearing it up.
My apologies to Andy52!

 

[Foolishhand]

LME,
I believe only Navy Arms made the Hawken in 54 caliber after Navy purchased the rights from Ithaca. Could be wrong, but I think that’s correct. So if your rifle is an Ithaca mfg rifle (or kit) it is probably 50 caliber. Please correct me if I’m wrong, cause it happens all the time, at least that’s what I am told……

 

[Einsiedler]

LME,
I believe only Navy Arms made the Hawken in 54 caliber after Navy purchased the rights from Ithaca. Could be wrong, but I think that’s correct. So if your rifle is an Ithaca mfg rifle (or kit) it is probably 50 caliber. Please correct me if I’m wrong, cause it happens all the time, at least that’s what I am told……

That’s kinda what I’m thinking must have happened too!

BP addict, do not turn down a 1" AF .50 calibre barreled rifle. Most of those GRRW 1/2 stock Leman trad rifles had 1" bbls in .50. I still have one here in the gunsafe. Got it in 1980. Back i. Those days ( 1970’s-80’s) there were lots of .50 cal. 1" AF rifles floating around. Lots of them were Douglas bbls.

 

[BP Addict]

No, they were actually 53.s I own one.

I know the Sante Fe was 53. I thought the Ithacas were 50 and 54.

Walt

 

[BP Addict]

My Ithaca circa 1979 was a .50. As were the others I came in contact with
Are you sure you might not have the Ithaca confused with the Allen Arms, (Western Arms) Santa Fe? They were .53. Back in the 80’s I sold a boat load of them. Hornady started swaging .520 round balls due to their popularity.
I owned a pair of consecutive numbered Jed Smith Commemoratives. Nice rifles. But damn long LOP.
Bit of trivia. Bob Allen of Allen arms. Santa Fe, was married to Aldo Uberti’s sister.

Found this in another Thread:

"The Ithaca Hawken had a pretty long lineage. IIRC it started off as Western Arms then Ithaca. Navy Arms was involved somewhere in the history. They are one of the most faithful reproductions of the J a s S Hawken Plains rifle. When the rifles were first being produced, the most authentic lock was made by Cherry Corners. It is a pretty good lock. It is now out of production.

One more piece of need to know information is that the bore was designed to J and S Hawken specifications. While it states that it is a 54 caliber rifle, that is a bit misleading. The groove depth is 0.540" so the land to land diameter is 0.530". A 0.526" or 0.520" ball is required."

Ithaca Hawken?? | The Muzzleloading Forum

Walt

 

[Einsiedler]

I was in the business in those days and I remember when both the Ithaca and then the Western Arms/ Allen were introduced. I think the contributor of that quote might be mixing some of the facts.
I seem to remember there was also another rifle that was suppose to go into production that never did. I’ve moved all my reference books up to the ranch but I thought it was the Hawken with the fleur d’ lyse finial on the patchbox. I think Phil Meek hit upon it in one of his eloquent and well written thread contributions over in the Rocky Mountain fur trade thread. I sure could be wrong. Wished he’d chime in here!
But I do not have any recollection of Ithaca absorbing another brand or design from another company. I remember they did have assistance from someone on their final creation. I just can’t remember who it was they helped them.
I’m certainly not the foremost authority on the subject!

 

[DuncNZ]

Uberti's first Hawken was very like the Santa Fe Hawken and I believe had some sort of link with Cherry corners , any way the first lot were .53 because it was a more authentic Hawken caliber than .54 , later Uberti's were .54 .

 

[BP Addict]

I was in the business in those days and I remember when both the Ithaca and then the Western Arms/ Allen were introduced. I think the contributor of that quote might be mixing some of the facts.
I seem to remember there was also another rifle that was suppose to go into production that never did. I’ve moved all my reference books up to the ranch but I thought it was the Hawken with the fleur d’ lyse finial on the patchbox. I think Phil Meek hit upon it in one of his eloquent and well written thread contributions over in the Rocky Mountain fur trade thread. I sure could be wrong. Wished he’d chime in here!
But I do not have any recollection of Ithaca absorbing another brand or design from another company. I remember they did have assistance from someone on their final creation. I just can’t remember who it was they helped them.
I’m certainly not the foremost authority on the subject!

"In the August 1978 issue of The Buckskin Report, John Baird had this little write-up about Leonard Allen visiting Montana. In addition to a little more background on Allen such as he was a previous owner of Replica Arms Company, Baird mentions that he and Ed Webber were working with Allen on a project to produce a new replica of a J&S Hawken rifle, one of the other Hawken rifles Allen was planning. This would become known as the Baird-Webber J&S Hawken."

From:

Uberti Santa Fe Hawken – GRRW Collector

This rifle never came to realization, unfortunately.

Walt

 

[Einsiedler]

Thank you Walt! Thats the one I was thinking of. Leonard Allen!! Not Bob. Thanks!

 

[Dale Lilly]

I'm looking for either a Sante Fe Hawken (.53 caliber) from Allen Arms or Western Arms company. I would also consider a 54 caliber Ithaca Hawken. I prefer the former as I already have a ball mold. Although, I've read that the Ithaca is a better representation.

I don't have an authentic Hawken copy in my collection. While I usually shoot flintlocks, I believe I should have one of these, right?

Thanks!

Walt

Walt, for your information Uberti also made the same Hawken as the Santa Fe for the Log Cabin shop. I have one of each and they are identical except for the name. The Allen, Western Arms, however has about 14" LOP and the Log Cabin shop has a 15" LOP. I am not sure if they were factory made or kits but they are nice. Both read .54 but are actually .53. Shoot Hornaday .520. Dale

 

[Kansas Kid]

I have a Santa Fe marked 54 but is a 53 I might sell. I shot club matches and Rendezvous years ago with it and won lots of prizes but it’s just to heavy for me now.

 

[brushblind]

All the Ithaca Hawkens made by Cherry Corners before N A"s were .50 cal , they were available as kits and finished rifles.