Scopes on MLers......again

[Doe]

...isn't it, just about haveing FUN i know i am :grin: why do we have to be prejudice it seem to me..this is just my opnion... we'er trying to step on each other toes!!

The concept of a "muzzleloading only" season was implemented to allow people a chance to hunt with historical style weapons. It wasn't started only to have "fun" or they could have simply extended the regular season and allowed ALL weapons.

Some folks see it as a chance to emulate an historic hunting style, while others see it as just another opportunity to plug a deer. IMHO

I know what you'r saying and i understand, but i think the term (muzzleloadeing season) is soooo VAGUE!!.. you know..That where/here in Michigan they got it wrong, but then again (Primitive weapon season only) just how far do we go back?? is there an end?? i don't know

 

[Jumpshot]

We only have to go back to when the muzzleloading season was created. The definition of 'muzzleloader' was very clear when the season was created, it was a sidelock of either caplock or flintlock persuasion, using a patched round ball or bore-size conical. The inline, weatherproof breech, shotgun primer, compressed powder pellets, jacketed conical bullets with plastic parts, and now electronic ignition, unless I'm mistaken, all came along later to make the challenge of using a muzzleloader easier, more efficient, more powerful, longer range, and more precise. All the qualities that defeat the purpose of the season.

The term 'muzzleloading season' wasn't vague at all when it was created. Everyone knew exactly what it meant.

We don't have to go back very far at all.

 

[James Rorar]

I am in favor of a seperate traditional ML season. No inlines, no 209, no pellets, no sabots, no scopes. Sidelock, round ball, loose powder only. I dont care if this is a new season, or the present one. I dont care if the modern ML hunters keep the present one (which we can still use) so long as we get a seperate traditional season. One that states very specific rules. We need to focus on what we can add to our sport instead of what was taken away. Moderen ML's are here to stay. In creating a seperate season the F&G departments win because of more money, and bigger kill if that is what they want. Manufactures win because they might sell more guns (traditional). Moderen guys win because they get to keep their own season (even if they did hijack it, and we can still hunt it). We win because we get a seperate season back. Just makes sense to me. Just a different approach to a subject that is a sore spot here.
James

 

[jeepwj992002]

Some folks see it as a chance to emulate an historic hunting style, while others see it as just another opportunity to plug a deer. IMHO

I do our primitive season for both. I don't like shotguns much. I even tried my hand at hunting deer with my Super Blackhawk. I like my muzzle loading rifles better. If fact all I shoot now is muzzle loaders. In my county, I am one of the VERY few who use a traditional muzzle loader. Almost everyone else I have seen use them space guns, big scopes and all. we may not be able to get rid of those guns, but we can show their owners up.

 

[No Grease]

In actuality it is all very simple, place the inliners back into the modern weapons season where they belong and continue the traditional ML season the way it is. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[jeepwj992002]

When it comes to Government entities, Things which are simple and make sense just do not happen. They like to make it a point to do things completely backwards from what the little people may consider proper.

 

[Catof9tails]

Whew! Now that's one hot topic! I felt it best to click on the "Claude Button" for my comment. Nothing toward ya Claude.

State laws are state laws and it ain't gonna change until your traditional muzzleloaders gets a voice. Meaning group up and push to change the laws just like in the state of Idaho. Idaho is one step closer to traditional than a few years ago. It comes down to the objective and the goal. Reach one objective and your that much closer to the goal and so forth.

I'm gonna have to go with the traditional folks on this one. Sporting inlines during muzzleloader season is just like carrying a 30-30 rifle in my opinion; scope or no scope.

One thing I can guarantee, this old alley cat sports a sidelock. And it is not uncommon to see me carrying my favorite TC Cougar 50 during regular gun season along with a possibles bag and powder horn. It's true I do hunt with centerfires, but that depends on the location. I hunted Cooke City, MT this fall with a 300 mag due to Grizz in the area. Once I found no fresh Grizz sign, I went to my 54 Hawken with roundball.

No matter who's opinion on inline vs the sidelock, this old cat will sport the sidelock during any gun season when possible as regulated by state law. It's just the Cat and because I can and I like the challenge. I do feel that muzzleloader season should be limited to traditional muzzleloaders and not the inline.

That's my opinion.
Cat9

"No Inlines In Cat's House."

 

[Walks with fire]

I am sure the day will come if I live that long where I will not be able to shoot open sights out to 100 yards like I do today at 52. But by moving the rear sight forward enough and/or getting a longer barrel or perhaps a peep sight someone who can see a deer could shot accurately enough at say 50 yards. General health is something we all have to deal with and I will be out shooting open sights and roundballs as long as I feel I can. I won't complain about it when I can't.

 

[Chasam2345]

In New York we have a MUZZLELOADING SEASON.Any rifle over 44cal that loads through the MUZZLE. Open sights,fiber optics,scopes,or no sights at all are legal.Round ball,conical,saboted bullet are all legal. I own and hunt with both sidelock and inline rifles. They are both accurate out to my max range of 150yds.I hunt both regular and muzzleloader seasons with a muzzleloading rifle.I use either type depending on weather,location I am hunting,or sometimes just how I feel that day.I hunt with a Great Plains conical in my New Englander,even though it shoots a saboted Nosler partition very well. What I would like to say is use whatever you want within the limits of the law,and please do not attempt to push your opinions on me. You have the right to your own choice,just as I do. I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU DO. It is your choice.

 

[tg]

". What I would like to say is use whatever you want within the limits of the law,and please do not attempt to push your opinions on me. You have the right to your own choice,just as I do. I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU DO. It is your choice.'

There are quite a few states where the ML hunting regs are all screwed up, which makes it possible for folks to hunt with something other than a REAL ML(note the trcky use of capitol letters to drive a point)maybe in time things will drift back to what was intended in the beginning, when most of the Modern ML users were probably not even around yet.

 

[Chasam2345]

". What I would like to say is use whatever you want within the limits of the law,and please do not attempt to push your opinions on me. You have the right to your own choice,just as I do. I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT YOU DO. It is your choice.'

There are quite a few states where the ML hunting regs are all screwed up, which makes it possible for folks to hunt with something other than a REAL ML(note the trcky use of capitol letters to drive a point)maybe in time things will drift back to what was intended in the beginning, when most of the Modern ML users were probably not even around yet


TG-I think you missed my point.A mz season is just what it is. A primitave MZ season is entirely something else.I live in southern NY,if I want to hunt with a "REAL ML" All I do is drive 7 miles to Pennsylvania for the FLINTLOCK ONLY season-none of those MODERN CAPLOCKS. My point remains the same It is all about choice and not forcing your opinion on someone else.

 

[tg]

". My point remains the same It is all about choice and not forcing your opinion on someone else'

No one is forcing an opinion,just suggesting that ML seasons get back to what they were intended to be which was not a season for modern guns and equipment even if they load from the front.The modern stuff slipped thru the back door due to lack of proper language in the regs, this was because that which should not be there had yet to be designed, it probably will not happen as most ML hunters would raise to much ruckus if their state required them to use real ML's and PRB with iron sights, some states have seen the errors and have made a bit of progress to getting back to the basics but there is little chance it will get to where it should be.

 

[Jumpshot]

The only person I see forcing their opinion on others is He-who-must-not-be-named. He's the one who files complaints with federal departments and gets investigations started into states that have more strict traditional definitions. No traditionalists have done such things in order to force their hand that I know of. Now who is forcing their opinion on whom?

 

[tg]

I sometimes think it is pointless to try and educate those who are bent on considering the traditional type and modern ML's as equal or that the only reasom the modern guns and gear are here is by lack of forsight, there are those who will fill their glass from the fountain of wisdom then there are some vessals which will remain empty, and a few heads as well.

 

[White Cloud]

I like many others would like to have a deer season where we could wear our Buckskins and use the ole smokepole with real blackpowder and round lead balls.But in the State of Ohio its not possible because they want to either group us with the shotgun season or in January, or the other special seasons with inlines which some even use smokeless powder scopes etc.That leaves me only squirrel season and then I must use so many square inches of orange to be legal.Buckskin outfit and orange vest and coonskin hat,Whow what a thrill but nobody cares about the guys who can't walk and must have a ATV to go a 200 yards and have cell phones,walkie talkies,range finders,bio-ears,etc.What ever happened to "Fair Chase"???? Its become a money thing for business,the state etc.How are we going to pass this down to the next generation and what do they think is "Fair Chase"???? Unless we start to go back to simpler ways I think hunting will out price itself you can see this everyday from the common longbow to the newer compound bows and arrows that you have to take a second morgage out to buy.The same with firearms and other hunting related products.White Clound getting off :yakyak: :yakyak: stump... :yakyak:

 

[Ron LaClair]

I am in favor of a seperate traditional ML season. No inlines, no 209, no pellets, no sabots, no scopes. Sidelock, round ball, loose powder only. I dont care if this is a new season, or the present one. I dont care if the modern ML hunters keep the present one (which we can still use) so long as we get a seperate traditional season. One that states very specific rules. We need to focus on what we can add to our sport instead of what was taken away. Moderen ML's are here to stay. In creating a seperate season the F&G departments win because of more money, and bigger kill if that is what they want. Manufactures win because they might sell more guns (traditional). Moderen guys win because they get to keep their own season (even if they did hijack it, and we can still hunt it). We win because we get a seperate season back. Just makes sense to me. Just a different approach to a subject that is a sore spot here.
James

Jim RN, you're absolutely right, we're not going to make the inlines go away, they're here to stay. We NEED to get a NEW season for traditional hunters. To do that we need to get organized into a National organization with State Representatives. That way we can take on one State at a time and lobby for a separate Primitive season. As the organization grows, it's voice will get louder and each state would have the backing of that National voice. Isn't the TMA such an organization?

 

[Ron LaClair]

Here in my State of Michigan a group of dedicated black powder shooters lobbied and got a Special Muzzleloading season back in 1975. That season started after the regular rifle deer season which ended the last of November. The Muzzleloading season covered all three zones and you had to buy a special license for $7.50. The season in December lasted less than two weeks. At that time in Michigan you were allowed only one buck per year so if you already had taken a buck in the regular season you couldn't get another with a muzzleloader.

The special season caught the attention of many of the states regular deer hunters and brought much popularity to the sport of hunting with a truly primitive traditional muzzleloader. It didn't take long however for this new type of hunting to also catch the attention of others who would soon figure out a way to turn it into a multi million dollar enterprise for themselves. All to soon the "special" season was no longer so special with the introduction of the "inline" muzzleloader into the previously "primitive" season.

The question is can we bring back a primitive/traditional season without the inlines?...I think we can. It will take time and it won't be easy, but...as they say, "Rome wasn't built in a day"

 

[Jumpshot]

I don't see why the traditionalists should have to do that work all over again. The modern guys muscled in and took over what wasn't created for them, they're the ones that should be made to work for their own season.

 

[Ron LaClair]

I don't see why the traditionalists should have to do that work all over again. The modern guys muscled in and took over what wasn't created for them, they're the ones that should be made to work for their own season.

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Jumpshot]

I realize it's not going to happen. I'm just calling it how I see it. But thanks for the compliment anyway.