Scottish Deer Rifle

[Rudyard]

Dear Dunk & don't mess with sticks I use the gunstock . The other hand is positively a prehensile grabbing device .
Cheers Rudyard

 

[Notchy Bob]

The subject rifle is beautiful. I know it was shown on the forum before, but it is well worth a second look, and the additional discussion. Thank you, @Feltwad , for bringing it out again.

This has been a great thread, and I am very pleased to see the international participation. It's always good to get the perspective of people from other places.

So, the subject gun is a Scottish deer rifle, purpose-built for stalking red deer in the highlands. A couple of years ago, I watched a video series called Wild Ireland, I believe, and I learned they have red deer there, too. The show was all about natural history, and I don't remember anything about hunting in it. Is there an Irish stalking tradition similar to that of Scotland? Are the hunting conditions much different in Ireland, as compared to Scotland? And finally, are there any purpose-built Irish deer rifles, that we know of?

Thanks!

Notchy Bob

 

[pamtnman]

The subject rifle is beautiful. I know it was shown on the forum before, but it is well worth a second look, and the additional discussion. Thank you, @Feltwad , for bringing it out again.

This has been a great thread, and I am very pleased to see the international participation. It's always good to get the perspective of people from other places.

So, the subject gun is a Scottish deer rifle, purpose-built for stalking red deer in the highlands. A couple of years ago, I watched a video series called Wild Ireland, I believe, and I learned they have red deer there, too. The show was all about natural history, and I don't remember anything about hunting in it. Is there an Irish stalking tradition similar to that of Scotland? Are the hunting conditions much different in Ireland, as compared to Scotland? And finally, are there any purpose-built Irish deer rifles, that we know of?

Thanks!

Notchy Bob

The answers to your questions are all Yes. Dublin-based Rigby made beautiful rifles for hunting red stag. Ireland has a very long deer hunting tradition, which unfortunately is on its last legs (ha). Not as rugged a landscape as Scotland, but plenty of varied habitat to make a true fair chase hunt. In the past, anyhow. Today there are a handful of shooting estates offering red stag. It’s bloody expensive, nothing like how we Americans hunt, you buy the meat after you’ve shot the critter, and the hide and head cost extra, too. People here in Pennsylvania beatch up a storm over deer management, and they don’t realize how good we have it here.

 

[bronko220002]

Beautiful. Have you shot it

 

[Coinneach]

If it’s a bayonet lug that has marred this beautiful sporting rifle, then perhaps it was required for service in the county militia, a duty or valued opportunity common when the rifle was made. I have seen special rests made for sporting guns that almost defied understanding, because they addressed some peculiar injury or physical abnormality due to polio. Most hunting in Scotland is done on the ground, crawling up to the crest of the hill, and shooting from there. Several years ago I returned a historic beautiful black powder double rifle to its original huge estate (Knoydart) in NW Scotland to hunt red stag. Ghillies and stalkers from all around came to shoot the gun, as did some visiting sportsmen and women. Anyhow, I spent a lot of time crawling about in the mud and the crags, and some people do shoot off sticks, but most shoot prone off their bag. The beasts won’t stand for a moment’s exposure to humans. I’d like to see an 1880s bayonet charge on a wounded stag!

I honestly can't imagine how it could be used as a Bayonet lug when compared to other conventional Barrel fixtures such as the Socket Bayonet lug and Baker Sword bayonet lug etc.
As an earlier post mentioned the Rifle was a specialised Deer hunting piece not intended for military use so why would a Bayonet be even considered ?
If the owner did take that Rifle on active military service then he would have had a conventional Bayonet or Sword bayonet lug installed, rather than something as complicated as whats shown in the photos.
Additionally the octagonal Barrel Muzzle end doesnt lend itself to a fitted Bayonet, other than if it was a Plug configuration (late 17th to early 18th Century proven impractical). and prone to jamming in the Muzzle rendering the weapon useless.

 

[Feltwad]

Well there have been two threads on this gun with plenty of comments on the fixture at the muzzle, most have been for some type of bayonet to others that suggested it was to fix a flashlight for poaching . It is for a fixture to use for a rest stick when taken a long shot similar has a modern day stalker uses a fork stick
Feltwad

 

[sheriff john]

Still a lovely piece which I enjoy ogling. Curious as to what type of projectile was preferred for stalking deer? Typical shooting distances?

 

[pamtnman]

I honestly can't imagine how it could be used as a Bayonet lug when compared to other conventional Barrel fixtures such as the Socket Bayonet lug and Baker Sword bayonet lug etc.
As an earlier post mentioned the Rifle was a specialised Deer hunting piece not intended for military use so why would a Bayonet be even considered ?
If the owner did take that Rifle on active military service then he would have had a conventional Bayonet or Sword bayonet lug installed, rather than something as complicated as whats shown in the photos.
Additionally the octagonal Barrel Muzzle end doesnt lend itself to a fitted Bayonet, other than if it was a Plug configuration (late 17th to early 18th Century proven impractical). and prone to jamming in the Muzzle rendering the weapon useless.

Hey man. You know I concur with you because you read and responded to my comments. I think it’s probably a custom rest for one user’s particular physical ailment or deformity.

 

[Relic shooter]

Bayonet Lug
Feltwad it's my opinion after 50+ years of collecting & shooting flint & percussion English & European firearms
that you have a custom built Officer's Rifle.
Judging by photos your rifle appears to have been professionally restored to as-new condition.
Looking forward to hearing how it performs for you at the range !
Relic shooter

 

[Rudyard]

It wasn't Professionally restored Feld Wad did it he's good as any one at restorations .Minor point I wouldn't call it a' Damascus' Barrel its a variant' Twist' barrel I think its a b' net provision no militia reason just the customers whim same with the double .Only Ordnance issue B 'nets conform & most of them arnt very interchangeable till modern times( post 1830s.)Maybe he fancied going to Europe where ' wild boar' where & still common. Plenty now in NZ but we just call them' pigs' and I never heard of a pig hunter who used a B' net On a rifle. The dogs corner then hold the pig till the hunter comes up (Probably blowing like an old horse in the steep bush ) , Then an old b' net or a slasher settles piggy jacks predicament . & in that very little has changed since the middle ages , Only they didn't cruise forestry roads with dogs in the back of the ute till they get a scent then its all on. Shooting deafens the dogs so some light rifle just in case might be carried .My village has lots of pig hunters you see dead pigs on top a common sight & the Pub used to host Biggest Pig, Deer. Opossum ect with junior classes .
Rudyard's fanciful take on the matter

 

[Rudyard]

Bayonet Lug
Feltwad it's my opinion after 50+ years of collecting & shooting flint & percussion English & European firearms
that you have a custom built Officer's Rifle.
Judging by photos your rifle appears to have been professionally restored to as-new condition.
Looking forward to hearing how it performs for you at the range !
Relic shooter

No such animal as an 'Officers rifle ' They might buy their sword & Revolver /sidearm horse .But their was Sergeants might get a carbine. But unlike the French there where no Ordnance' Officer' anything . They might have their sporting gun & dogs on Campain .But' Officers 'being 'Gentlemen 'kitted them selves out .I was collecting and shooting MLs while still at school if & left School at 15 which was the then norm I joined the MLAGB as a Junior member 1961 or thereabouts . Same as Felt Wad I expect . I know Officers might be eccentric but Ordnance wasn't . I don't mean to demean your views but felt I had to refute the' Officer issue' none sense .
Regards Rudyard

 

[New Hampshire]

Outstanding hunting rifle that I would be proud to own. The crisp pattern on the barrel is beautiful.

 

[Relic shooter]

No such animal as an 'Officers rifle ' They might buy their sword & Revolver /sidearm horse .But their was Sergeants might get a carbine. But unlike the French there where no Ordnance' Officer' anything . They might have their sporting gun & dogs on Campain .But' Officers 'being 'Gentlemen 'kitted them selves out .I was collecting and shooting MLs while still at school if & left School at 15 which was the then norm I joined the MLAGB as a Junior member 1961 or thereabouts . Same as Felt Wad I expect . I know Officers might be eccentric but Ordnance wasn't . I don't mean to demean your views but felt I had to refute the' Officer issue' none sense .
Regards Rudyard

I'm never insulted by opposing views, not the first in six plus decades of collecting.

 

[centershot]

Yes, outstanding craftsmanship on this one! I, too, very much admire the pattern on the barrel.....if only that could be reproduced on our modern barrels.....