Secure Ways to Pay

[BigSkyRambler]

Been following these posts about scammers etc. Some folks beating up on USPS Money Orders and saying personal checks are safer and should be accepted. I have been buying and selling on many sites, principally Gunbroker for many years. The USPS Money Order is sort of the Coin of The Realm in many ways. A couple of reasons. First, counterfeiting one is a federal crime. Failing to deliver goods paid for with one is mail fraud. Protects both buyer and seller. But, as mentioned, they can be modified - as can checks - by washing. These are risks using anything but a CC and most people, especially on sites like this, have no way to accept a CC. I personally prefer USPS MOs, as I can ship straight away upon receipt. Personal checks I usually let clear my bank. Sorry. As people have gotten familiar with me - and others - I am seeing more offers to pay with PayPal Friends and Family. As we all know, PayPal will not offer protection for any kind of firearm or many parts no matter what option you use. A risk, but probably an acceptable one on a forum where public shaming is a real option. The scammers have no history on the forum. Many of us are all over the place if you use the search function. So if offers to buy or sell from people with no history sound too good to be true, it probably isn't. Keep safe out there. Communicate. Ask questions and for specific photos and contact others who have done business with that user.

 

[BigAl52]

I have no issues with a seller not shipping an item until a check clears the bank. It should be expected when paying with a check. But I do have issues with a MO that is lost in the mail waiting 60 days to file a claim to get the money back. Then having to pay to file the claim. It’s happened to me twice and never again. I refuse to do business with USPS.

 

[Throwdown58]

Been following these posts about scammers etc. Some folks beating up on USPS Money Orders and saying personal checks are safer and should be accepted. I have been buying and selling on many sites, principally Gunbroker for many years. The USPS Money Order is sort of the Coin of The Realm in many ways. A couple of reasons. First, counterfeiting one is a federal crime. Failing to deliver goods paid for with one is mail fraud. Protects both buyer and seller. But, as mentioned, they can be modified - as can checks - by washing. These are risks using anything but a CC and most people, especially on sites like this, have no way to accept a CC. I personally prefer USPS MOs, as I can ship straight away upon receipt. Personal checks I usually let clear my bank. Sorry. As people have gotten familiar with me - and others - I am seeing more offers to pay with PayPal Friends and Family. As we all know, PayPal will not offer protection for any kind of firearm or many parts no matter what option you use. A risk, but probably an acceptable one on a forum where public shaming is a real option. The scammers have no history on the forum. Many of us are all over the place if you use the search function. So if offers to buy or sell from people with no history sound too good to be true, it probably isn't. Keep safe out there. Communicate. Ask questions and for specific photos and contact others who have done business with that user.

Absolutely incorrect parotted information that has not been true for a very long time. I posted about this on the prior thread. USPS money orders are the worst of the worst right now. Widespread use of them for guns became a thing after I made a very big deal about the US postal inspectors catching a notorious scammer on GunsAmerica and other websites back in 2011.
https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/...as-exclusive-form-of-non-credit-card-payment/
This is looooong over. The postal inspectors are not interested and when someone cashes your money order they are gone. Most online scams these days are using mules in poor rural neighborhoods who see signs for "make money from home." They cash the money orders and keep a portion, then wire the rest out of the country. It takes a real investigation to find the person running the operation from the US.

By far the safest way to handle a transaction online is to call the person and speak to them. They will not know anything about what they are selling, and if they say they are selling for a friend, go look at the delivery address for the money order, and check it on google maps. Then, with no warning, ask what color is your house. They never know that.

Otherwise, ppff is fine for transactions once you are comfortable. A personal check is your best protection otherwise. Your bank has a lot more leverage than you do, and may give you the money back outright.

Rule #1. If it is too good to be true, it's not true.

 

[Davey Boy]

If it's PayPal only, I would rather go without. Read the terms and learn.

 

[BigSkyRambler]

I guess I have been blessed. I have never had a USPS MO get lost going or coming. They have also broken fewer guns than FedWrecks or Oops!PS. The former has fully paid multiple claims for loss or damage. The latter two, not so much. YMMV.

 

[jim bowie]

I've been thinking about this also. Here's an old idea. Half down, half on delivery. While there is still risk involved it would reduce the buyers risk by 50 percent and share the risk equally between buyer and seller. Might reduce inaccurate descriptions as well.
New members might find this agreeable when joining and immediately trying to sell something. A less risky way to establish credibility.
What say ye?

 

[Throwdown58]

The numbers of actual online fraud out there are tiny these days. It is much more likely on a forum like this than on GA or GB, because we have algorithms in place to flag certain common MOs. On forums it is much more likely because old account gets phished and then the scammers post from that old account. I have personally done dozens of transactions on this forum with no real problems.

 

[andy52]

I've brought two guns on the forum, used Paypal for one and MO for the other didn't have a problem with either. I rarely sell any of my firearms so that isn't an issue.
Most of the sales I make here are for leather goods and PayPal is by far the easiest for me even though I don't like their anti-gun stance. For those that don't use are won't use PayPal I'll do MOs or personal checks and if they are members in good standing here on the forum I'll ship before payment is received.

 

[nightwolf1974]

I prefer to pay with USPMO for stuff I buy here and 2 other similar sites. Only had 1 issue where the seller claimed to not receive the USPMO, and had to get it refunded and reissued 3 times! But other than that, no problems.

 

[MCFred]

I have now recently identified 2 scammers on the forums. Based on my interactions with them I have come to a few conclusions. I believe they are the same person or a group of foreigners operating outside the USA. They are employing surprisingly sophisticated methods to appear legitimate. They are reading these posts to actively counter attempts we are making to detect them. The last individual had taken measures to disrupt my attempt to authenticate them. So I’m trying not to disclose too much but I also want people to be aware of the techniques and be extra vigilant. They are joining and replying to posts create a history to look legitimate. Joined mid October but had over 70 semi generic replies to other posts. They are photoshopping IDs and photos. They aren’t replying to a post directly but sending a PM asking you to text them at their personal number. The payment method is just one tier to try and prevent being scammed. Besides being aware of all the other indicators. Unless you arrange to meet them face to face. Talk to them on the phone directly. (Which even this could be questionable as they already have a local that is collecting the USPS money Or have them visit a local gun store then call that store and have an employee verify then scamming will be a threat. Not sure what else could help. Possibly a pinned post on scammer warning signs to inform the group. Just my 2c. Maybe some others have some better ideas.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Moved to Vendors because buying from a Vendor might use similar payment methods, AND folks who are not Premium Members would not be able to read this if in the "Non Muzzleloading Discussion" area...


LD

 

[Elkhorse]

I've noticed that when someone posts a picture as an Attachment it posts the date the picture was taken at the bottom.
Maybe that's a way to authenticate?

 

[MCFred]

I've noticed that when someone posts a picture as an Attachment it posts the date the picture was taken at the bottom.
Maybe that's a way to authenticate?

Every scam I have encountered the individual has sent me the exact pics they stole from another website/listing. To detect this do a reverse image search. Google “reverse image search”, follow the instructions and see if the image gets a match. Just be careful. A recent technique I have encountered that they have used to foil the search is to attach a text component to the image. It will foil the search. Just check when the search results pop up and ensure no text appears in the search bar. It will foil the image. I included a ln actual pic where they did this you can see the word “solid” in the search bar. Just erase it then retype in reverse image search or select it if it gives you a grip down menu. Hit search again. In the case of the attached photo the exact image was in the search results from a post in the muzzleoading forum from a few years ago… Scam detected.. A search for the can’t completely eliminate the possibility of a scam but it’s a important tool. Hope this helps.

 

[MCFred]

The corrected search should look something like this.. scroll down and there is the same image in the search results.

 

[OldRust]

I prefer to pay with USPMO for stuff I buy here and 2 other similar sites. Only had 1 issue where the seller claimed to not receive the USPMO, and had to get it refunded and reissued 3 times! But other than that, no problems.

When I mail a USPS money order I insure the letter for $5.00. Insured items require more accountability than a dropped in the box letter. It will cost less then $2.00. My local Postmaster put me on to this, as she had a customer that mailed a lot of collectable baseball cards. My SWMBO of 49 years who retired from the USPS likes Signature Confirmation for the same reason.

The biggest problem seems to be getting a counter clerk who will argue that they can not insure a letter. I just tell them the the Postmaster is the one who told me how to do it and please try, if not allowed the terminal will not let you do it.

Thanks
O.R

SWMBO = She Who must Be Obeyed

 

[BigSkyRambler]

When I mail a USPS money order I insure the letter for $5.00. Insured items require more accountability than a dropped in the box letter. It will cost less then $2.00. My local Postmaster put me on to this, as she had a customer that mailed a lot of collectable baseball cards. My SWMBO of 49 years who retired from the USPS likes Signature Confirmation for the same reason.

The biggest problem seems to be getting a counter clerk who will argue that they can not insure a letter. I just tell them the the Postmaster is the one who told me how to do it and please try, if not allowed the terminal will not let you do it.

Thanks
O.R

SWMBO = She Who must Be Obeyed

I did not know that. Thanks! Very useful bit of information.