Shelf life of goex

[Zonie]

Of course I'm guessing but I think the Navy was grasping at straws when they came up with that reason for the Iowa disaster.

We and the Navy will probably never know the truth but I'd bet my money on some human error like short-cutting the loading procedures.

Getting back to the OP, yes, black powder will last almost forever if it is kept dry.

Well, I take that back.

The way our members burn it up in their smokepoles it doesn't seem to last them long at all. :grin:

 

[necchi]

Myth,

The first investigation into the explosion, conducted by the US Navy, concluded that one of the gun turret crew members, Clayton Hartwig, who died in the explosion, had deliberately caused it.
,,,,,,
Navy officers and investigators,,,,, Hartwig was but that he was suicidal and had caused the explosion with either an electronic or chemical detonator.
,,,,,,,,


The Navy, however, disagreed with Sandia's opinion and concluded that the cause of the explosion could not be determined.

In short, they thought an over ram could have caused it but nothing was said about temp.

 

[swathdiver]

It looks like I am going to have to order it and the smallest amount I can find is a 5 pound minimum order.

You could order a pound from Grafs & Sons but the Hazmat fee would make that about $50. Order 3lbs for about $77. Throw in some round ball with no extra shipping charge, or caps if they have them.

 

[suzkat]

Does fed law limit you to possession of 2 lbs. That is what I was told

 

[Dan Jordan]

No Sir, If so the suppliers wouldn't bother to try and sell you the 5lb. lots.also if that was the law theres a whole lot of people even on this forum that has broken it several times over.

 

[necchi]

The Feds have you limited to 50#.
It's usually the State and local laws/ordinance that limit quantities.
Here in Minn it's 25#,
And my City has me at 10# (it's a Fire Ordinance), while a friend of mine literally a 1/2mile down the same road is out of the City limits and can have 25#.

If you have a question about your local rules the Fire Dept. is the ones that usually has the answer.
It's not a good idea to ask your Landlord, Insurance man, Sheriff, or PD. Not that anything is wrong or illegal, it's just sometimes a good idea to keep a low profile, some folks have preconceived ideas that can be hard to beat.

 

[Otter Trapper 100]

Everything that I have read says you can have up to 50lbs for personal use. I don't know if that is everywhere or just in some states. It does say on the Track of the wolf web site that they can legally sell individuals up to 50lbs.

 

[roundball]

Does fed law limit you to possession of 2 lbs. That is what I was told

Go to the ATF website...it'll confirm the Fed regs of the 50lb limit for recreational purposes in a single family dwelling with no requirement for special storage, paperwork, etc.

Then contact your state's "Fire Marshall's Office" and ask if your state has any 'override' to the Federal Regs regarding blackpowder, or is your state the same as Federal Regs.

Those are the two official contact points regarding blackpowder regulations and IMO, it's always best to get your answers straight from the source on matters like this.

 

[RacerX]

I have 3 cans of late 70's Goex myself. I have shot several rounds using it and had no problems.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have been looking all over trying to find real black powder. It looks like I am going to have to order it and the smallest amount I can find is a 5 pound minimum order. That will be a lot of powder for me. How long can I expect it to last? Or better yet does anyone know where it can be ordered in a smaller amount? Thanks.

I only shoot for deer hunting; meaning I don't do "rondavous" or reinacting. One can of powder is only about 75 to 85 shots. that's three to maybe 4 range trips. Meaning that ANY shooting at ALL is 2 cans a year. Nothing ever seems to get cheaper as time goes buy; but the case and 12 years from now when you are geeting low you will think that its a shame that powder cost so much in the year 2026....

 

[FishDFly]

If a person turns the can over and reads the instructions provided by the manufacturer for storage, it will last the life time of the original purchaser.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If a person turns the can over and reads the instructions provided by the manufacturer for storage, it will last the life time of the original purchaser.

Does it go sour quickly if you sell to someone else? :rotf:

 

[ohio ramrod]

If a person turns the can over and reads the instructions provided by the manufacturer for storage, it will last the life time of the original purchaser.

Does it go sour quickly if you sell to someone else? :rotf:

It won't go sour,but you will if you get caught selling powder without the federal license!
:idunno: :idunno:

 

[Joel/Calgary]

As long as it is kept dry and not exposed to temps over 160 degrees F it will last well over 150 years! :hmm: :hmm:

Where did you get that 160 degrees thing? I'm skeeptikal it is correct. :wink:

Per Bill Knight:

Chemical changes that occur in black powder as the result of high storage temperatures involves a reaction between the sulfur ingredient and the potassium nitrate ingredient.

Sulfur has a melting point up around the boiling point of water. But at a lower temperature a small portion of the sulfur will go from a solid state to a gaseous state without going through the liquid state.

Anytime I am asked to look closely at specific brands or lots of BP I run a moisture check. This is done in the wife's kitchen oven. Normally I will run the samples to a constant weight to look at weight loss. I keep the maximum oven temperature below 170 F. Once I exceed 170F I begin to smell elemental sulfur. That is the point at which a small portion of the sulfur has gone from a solid state to a gaseous state.

Below 170 F, and in a solid state, the elemental sulfur is relatively inert and unreactive. But in a gaseous state the sulfur vapors are highly reactive with the potassium nitrate. The end products of the chemical reactions involved are potassium sulfate and free lower oxides of nitrogen. Since the heat induced chemical reactions take away elemental sulfur there is a slowing of the burn rate of the powder. Loses of even small amounts of sulfur in the powder will depress burn rates. With the loss of potassium nitrate comes a "weakening" of the powder through a loss of oxygen that would otherwise be available for oxidation of the carbon (charcoal) during powder combustion.

Normally during powder storage the caustic minerals found in the charcoal tend to buffer any sulfur induced chemical reactions in the powder. When the caustic mineral matter from the charcoal is consumed the powder may then go rather acidic in a hurry and as this occurs the rate of chemical change in the powder is speeded up. It becomes what amounts to a self-acellerating decomposition reaction.

Technical sources give 120 to 125 F as the maximum storage temperature for smokeless powders. In some respects it is a good rule of thumb for black powder storage.

Moisture content in the powder will play a part in this chemical stability versus storage temperature issue. Generally, the higher the moisture content of the powder the more sensitive it will be to being stored at temperatures approaching the point where some volatilization of the sulfur begins.

The purity of the ingredients used to manufacture will play a part in the chemical stability of the powder and this included the water used to wet the powder for the wheel-milling step in the process. Powder drying and polishing temperatures will effect the chemical stability in black powder to varying degrees. Powder processed at high temperatures will begin to show signs of chemical change in the manufacturing process.

There was a good paper on this topic published in 1944 by the U.S. Bureau Of Mines. The paper came out of an investigation into a powder magazine explosion that involved a good quantity of bp. The bp had been made damp to reduce its dispersal in blasting work. Stored in a magazine in hot sun. The self-accelerating decomposition reaction began within the powder. At a rate that caused heat to build up in the powder. Once the melting point of the sulfur was exceeded the entire mass of black powder went up almost at the same time. It did not surface burn as it should. The results mimic the results of true detonation. Probably the only conditions under which bp can mimic something akin to true detonation.

I vaguely recall him suggesting elsewhere that 130F would be a suggested safe maximum storage temperature, but I cannot locate that source, and might be mistaken.

Regards,
Joel

 

[50cal.cliff]

BP, basically has no shelf life unless exposed to moisture and then it can be dried out and I have seen it exposed to high heat and saw no problems after ward!

Now that is BP not a sub!

Look at it this way they still occasionally discover some left over from the civil war and the powder in it is still considered dangerous! Think of the time frame and conditions that the powder in the left over has been exposed too! :hmm:

 

[FishDFly]

This question should be a sticky, it is asked each week, over and over, and year after year.

 

[swathdiver]

Does fed law limit you to possession of 2 lbs. That is what I was told

No, 50lbs. The most you can order at once is 25lbs and possess 50lbs. Kinda like bag and possession limits!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Does fed law limit you to possession of 2 lbs. That is what I was told

No, 50lbs. The most you can order at once is 25lbs and possess 50lbs. Kinda like bag and possession limits!

You are incorrect. BP can be ordered and shipped in 50 lb. quantities.
Methinks this thread has gone ff

 

[Billnpatti]

Federal law limits you to 50 pounds of black powder. However, some states and localities set stricter limits. In order to know the limits at your location, you would need to contact state and local officials. Do not depend on the vendor to know your limits or to restrict the amount to the limits imposed by your state of locality that they will ship to you.

 

[AZbpBurner]

BP, basically has no shelf life unless exposed to moisture and then it can be dried out and I have seen it exposed to high heat and saw no problems after ward!

Now that is BP not a sub!

Look at it this way they still occasionally discover some left over from the civil war and the powder in it is still considered dangerous! Think of the time frame and conditions that the powder in the left over has been exposed too! :hmm:

A few years back, there was a self-proclaimed 'expert' on Civil War munitions who would process old artillery shells dug up & sent to him. Even Law Enforcement gave him stuff for disposal. Apparently he knew all the fuses, charges & designs of the stuff both sides lobbed at each other.

Now, this goober knew his stuff, but, apparently when he was a-banging on a particular shell out in his driveway, he found out the hard way what "still 'splody" means & was blown to bits. Investigators later determined that he had enough unprocessed (live) ordinance in his garage to level the entire neighborhood.

Even though most of this stuff had been buried since the Civil War, the black powder was still good enough to end this guys' career.