Shootable antique?

[dave951]

First off, we shoot many original guns of that era in North South Association live fire competition. If your problem cleans up well, it shouldn't be a problem to shoot.

Second, and read this carefully, DO NOT attempt to take the breech out unless and until there is absolutely no other course and then have a smith who knows muskets do it. Dan Whitacre is one as is Bobby Hoyt. If you don't have proper tools, you can seriously booger up an original gun.

 

[Trailblazer451]

First off, we shoot many original guns of that era in North South Association live fire competition. If your problem cleans up well, it shouldn't be a problem to shoot.

Second, and read this carefully, DO NOT attempt to take the breech out unless and until there is absolutely no other course and then have a smith who knows muskets do it. Dan Whitacre is one as is Bobby Hoyt. If you don't have proper tools, you can seriously booger up an original gun.

This is one of the pieces that I would have to send to the experts as necessary. I'll clean it as it stands and see how it comes out. I'd do the difficult work myself if it was a 1911 - I'm much more capable.

Oh, and I was going to ask some questions on the NSSA site, but registering is turned off.

Dave

 

[dave951]

This is one of the pieces that I would have to send to the experts as necessary. I'll clean it as it stands and see how it comes out. I'd do the difficult work myself if it was a 1911 - I'm much more capable.

Oh, and I was going to ask some questions on the NSSA site, but registering is turned off.

Dave

There are several of us on this forum. Maybe Hawkeye will chime in here.

 

[Trailblazer451]

OK. So I've ended up with this.

Scrub like hell with brushes and a good solvent to clean up the barrel. Build a scraper to clean out the grooves if possible. Get a camera to inspect the results. If it looks good, give it a try.

If I can't get it good enough to be comfortable, send the barrel off to the experts to have the plug pulled, barrel inspected, cleaned properly, and repaired as necessary.

And thanks for the info on the threaded ramrod end. I didn't really think that it threaded into the channel, even though an expected reliable source told me that it was supposed to do that.

No thoughts on value relative to the reproductions, but I really didn't expect a response there.

If anyone has something else to contribute, I'd love to hear it!

Thanks,

Dave

 

[smoothshooter]

Those fouling rings are what I was suggesting you have. Look up what chemical you could pour down your barrel to loosen it up. Acid would for sure, but yould need to be careful and not leave it in too long. And neutralize it afterwards. Othrwise there is commercial product available for taking lead off I just dont know what its called. Other option Im aware of is to scrape it out as I detailed. There are others such as taking breech plug out but that doesnt change things much as far as cleaning. Or heat the outside of your barrel enough to melt it. Id try the chemical solution.

Evapo-Rust?

 

[smoothshooter]

Hi guys. New to black powder. I've been reading and researching a lot on the following firearm, and now have a number of questions.

I inherited an original 1854 Austrian Lorenz in .54 cal (13.9mm). When I first looked at the barrel to ensure that it was not loaded, the ramrod would go all the way down with the skinny/threaded end sent down first. However, the fat end would stop 3-4" short of the breech. I ran a dry patch and a brush down the barrel, and slowly opened up the pinch point to where the fat end of the ramrod (name of that part?) went all the way down easily with clearance. The rifling near the muzzle is fully present. The patch and "stuff that came out" showed both black and rust colored. More rust colored on the patch than black.

The firearm is just a nicely patina'd firearm. 1859 date on the lock plate, Has an "L" stamped/cut into the wood near the left side of the tang. It has a fixed rear sight and a cheekrest. It has little finish on the exterior steel, but I understand that is pretty much the original (non-)finish. It functions well. The lock is pretty clean, the hammer spring is strong, has full positive function at full and half ****. The trigger pull is reasonably good, the nipple is not deformed, and hole to the breech is clear. The stock is not cracked or damaged. The only real issue I can find without complete disassembly is the barrel as noted above. No bayonet. I see that Pedersoli is making repops of this firearm for shooters and reenactors.

Questions:
Is there a proper way to inspect the barrel and "chamber?" I'm concerned about trying to shoot it if I can't ensure that the necked down area is fully cleared.

What defines the firearm as shootable? I'd like to use it, but should it be relegated to blank firing only?

I understand that you don't want to use modern solvents and lubes, so should I just use the Dawn and Ballistol/Bore Butter method and call it good? What jags/tools should I use - patch only? And what is the definition of "good?"

If I were to sell it, is an original version of this firearm - in the described condition - worth anywhere close to the repops?

Is the threaded end of the ramrod for some kind of jags? Someone told me that it might thread into the bottom of the ramrod channel for retention, but it does not thread in.


I don't have any pics right now. I could take and post a couple if there is interest, but the barrel wouldn't show, of course.

Thanks,

Dave

Start with an undersized copper bore brush, say .45 or .50 caliber, and work your way up, using something like Hoppe’s #9 Solvent. or similar. Don’t spare the solvent. Pour a little bit right down the muzzle to start. Sandwich a piece of rubber or leather between the face of the hammer with the nipple with the hammer fully down to keep dirty solvent from running out of the nipple and down the stock leaving a semi-permanent stain streak. Wad a piece of cotton shop rag or similar in there too in case any escapes the leather under the hammer. You may end up having to have an experienced person unbreech it for you in the end, but try the preceding method first.

 

[Poguetx]

The pictures you posted looks like the nipple is a modern replacement for #11 caps, not a musket nipple. If that is the case, the nipple should remove easily and just give it a good cleaning with your detergent/hot water solution to see if your tight spot improves.

You didn't really mention the depth of the tight spot. If the ball would be above it on a full charge, there should be no issue firing it. In other words, the tight spot is in the powder chamber, not where the ball sits or in the rifled part of the barrel.

 

[Musketeer]

You didn't really mention the depth of the tight spot. If the ball would be above it on a full charge, there should be no issue firing it. In other words, the tight spot is in the powder chamber, not where the ball sits or in the rifled part of the barrel.

He mentioned the rammer stopping "3 to 4 inches" from the breech. A projectile would have to be pushed past the crud ring to seat on the powder, if that's the case.

 

[Trailblazer451]

He mentioned the rammer stopping "3 to 4 inches" from the breech. A projectile would have to be pushed past the crud ring to seat on the powder, if that's the case.

"The crud ring." I like that.

Dave

 

[rickpa]

Sometimes the skirt of a Minie ball would separate from the body and the lead ring would remain stuck in the bore near the breech if an over charge of powder was used. I'm not sure if the .54 Lorenz used a Minie style bullet or not so this might not be what it is.

 

[toot]

Well, I've tried the flashlight, but you can't see very far. Definitely not to the point of concern.

And the ramrod did go all the way to the end of the breech with the threaded end, but not with the fat end until I opened it up. I haven't gotten a cap anywhere close to the firearm yet, though I might do that soon just to ensure the pathway is clear (pop a cap!). I have musket caps.


Thanks, Dave

what I do is polish the base / head of a spent pistol case and slide it down the bore and then use a flash lite to aluminate the bore!

 

[smoothshooter]

what I do is polish the base / head of a spent pistol case and slide it down the bore and then use a flash lite to aluminate the bore!

Small ball bearing works too.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Also the bobber fishing lights or the illuminated nock lights for arrows work as bore lights too. these are small in diameter and fit the bore and are bright, giving a good view of the bore.

Amazon.com : 6PCS-LED Bobber Light Replacement Battery for Fishing Lures, Fishing Bobbers, Pen Lights, Arrow Nocks, Fishing Floats, Pole Lights, LED Flashers (Green) : Sports & Outdoors

 

[JCKelly]

Don't know how Austrians made this gun barrel, but what would concern me is possible forge welging defects or slag inclusions in the barrel iron itself.
For example, our own Harpers Ferry muskets with hand-forged barrels had as much as 40% loss in proof. See Harper’s Ferry and the New Technology, by Merritt Roe Smith, copyright 1977

If for whatever reason you wish to shoot an original rifle musket, might I suggest it be one with a roll-forged barrel out of Springfield Armory in the 1860's. These are probably better strength barrels than any American replica made today.

In my eager, but most ignorant, teens I did shoot a .58 rifle musket by P. J. MAHLERBE & CCU A LIÉGE . Early Civil War surplus. I lived but would not repeat this endeavor.

 

[BadDaditood]

If you don’t have a can of Kroil, get one! It’s the best rust breaker out there. I’d remove the barrel, plug the nipple, pour Kroil on that “crud ring” and stand it up in a corner for a week or two. It’ll clean up fine then go from there.

 

[Trailblazer451]

If you don’t have a can of Kroil, get one! It’s the best rust breaker out there. I’d remove the barrel, plug the nipple, pour Kroil on that “crud ring” and stand it up in a corner for a week or two. It’ll clean up fine then go from there.

I DO have Kroil. It has been invaluable for removing rusted fasteners in many many situations. Great idea!

Ill scrub for a bit first, so that I can really expose the tough stuff, then do as you suggest and scrub again.

Dave

 

[BadDaditood]

I DO have Kroil. It has been invaluable for removing rusted fasteners in many many situations. Great idea!

Ill scrub for a bit first, so that I can really expose the tough stuff, then do as you suggest and scrub again.

Dave

Just trying to save you time and money...
Good Luck!

 

[Trailblazer451]

Get an $8 bore scope off eBay, you can see what is really going on in your bore.

Any recommended models? There sure are a lot of choices.