I'vew been rading some 1700 accounts of the "Brits" writeing about the "us" from just one line ".."their rifle guns with a ball slit almost in 4 quarters, when fired..breaks into 4 pieces, and generally does great execution." That and a few more from "The Frontier Rifleman". So has anyone tryed this lately? Sounds like a hell of a deer ball if it goes straight. ( right now I'm ducking for the move to some other spot) Anyway if someone has tryed it let me know, I cant see how you could hit anything at 100yds. FRED :hatsoff:
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Shooting a 1/4 cut ball
- Thread starter faw3
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Sounds like an early form of "dumb dumb" bullet. Some of the Brits in India would cut a cross into the nose of their bullets to make em' expand better. Do a google on "dumb dumb" and I'm sure you'll come up with something.
Well, here's what I've found.[url] http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=808242 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum-dum[/url]
There's also a lot of B.S. about em' too, oh those anti-gun types and their propaganda, it's funny how little some people know about guns and how much they talk about em'.
Well, here's what I've found.[url] http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=808242 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dum-dum[/url]
There's also a lot of B.S. about em' too, oh those anti-gun types and their propaganda, it's funny how little some people know about guns and how much they talk about em'.
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It doesn't sound to me like it would be very good on any game where you want some real penetration.
Might be good on coyotes or some other smaller thin skinned critter.
Might be good on coyotes or some other smaller thin skinned critter.
It would in effect be sending four pieces of buckshot into the enemy ranks which could be worse than one ball if they were of adequate size but this would be of little use in hunting unless you could nearly touch the deer with the barrel.
a ball cut like a split shot, ya it might be just bull, but if no one has tryed it I guess I will have to, 30 something years shooting these and Ive never heard of this one being done, and really cant see how you could come within 20' of your target at even 50 yds . Will let ya know in a few days. Fred :hatsoff:
At 1700 feet per second muzzle velocity that would be 1700 times 12 inches = 20,400 inches per second.gmww said:
20,400 inches per second divided by one turn in 60 inches = 340 turns per second.
340 turns per second times 60 seconds in a minute = 20,400 RPM.
I can't imagine a split shot holding together at that rotational speed, but you be the judge.
Zonie
:hmm: :hmm: on the contrary, I can't imagine it separating.....mainly because it wouldn't actually rotate 20,400 time's.Zonie said:At 1700 feet per second muzzle velocity that would be 1700 times 12 inches = 20,400 inches per second.gmww said:
20,400 inches per second divided by one turn in 60 inches = 340 turns per second.
340 turns per second times 60 seconds in a minute = 20,400 RPM.
I can't imagine a split shot holding together at that rotational speed, but you be the judge.
Zonie
That's just a numerical projection for the course of a whole 60 second minute...an eternity compared to the actual ignition/exit event of a PRB which is the blink of an eye, mere milliseconds...a ball doesn't even make a whole revolution the entire length of a barrel.
I can't see where such a bizarre enough amount of actual high speed rotation could occur that would have to be required to create so much centrifugal force as to cause a crimped lead shot to separate.
I think if a cut is made into a Hornady or Speer ball like a split shot, and it's fired into a row of water jugs, the whole mass of lead will be right there...haven't run exhaustive scientic tests of course, just my humble opinion :grin:
roundball or anyone ya got any idea how they did this cutting back then?? Thats why I wasnt sure about posting this and getting moved.. this is from Virginia Gazette 1775 and London Chronicle same year. When fired breaks into 4 parts. So Im guessing it was a shotgun effect, why I havent a clue. Fred :hatsoff:
I think the point oif the articlea has to be made more precisely clear...it makes no sense to have a ball that would intentionally break up upon firing...they could more easily use a few buckshot if they wanted it to separate at muzzle exit.
I have to believe the intent and purpose was for the projectile to fragment upon hitting the target...much like certain types of "frangible" bullets today...and Remington's Copper Solid" shotgun slug with the top third precut into 4 quarters, so they'll separate when hitting a deer and go off into different directions, creating different wound channels, etc.
I have to believe the intent and purpose was for the projectile to fragment upon hitting the target...much like certain types of "frangible" bullets today...and Remington's Copper Solid" shotgun slug with the top third precut into 4 quarters, so they'll separate when hitting a deer and go off into different directions, creating different wound channels, etc.
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The end result of cutting the balls was achieved, creating fear in the enemy. The possibility that the projectile existed prevented the British officer from completing his mission effectivly. There was a constant hinderance in his mind.
Mythology will always be a part of shooting. Remember the M-16 rounds that went in the arm and came out the opposite leg. AK rifles that would use any ammo of any caliber one picked up on the battlefield. And everyone knows that rifle balls rotate because demons are riding on them!
There are still people that believe a load of buckshot opens to a 3' pattern as soon as it leaves the barrel of a shotgun and a .45 slug in the thumb will knock an attacker down. And some people actually chose and carry weapons based on these fables.
The rifleman that split the balls probably thought he was creating a more dangerous projectile even though he did not know for certain. The British officer believed it, so the projectile had massive effect before it was even loaded or fired.
The "average person" knows very little factual information about firearms, projectiles or their behavior on target.
Most "experts" know even less.
Mythology will always be a part of shooting. Remember the M-16 rounds that went in the arm and came out the opposite leg. AK rifles that would use any ammo of any caliber one picked up on the battlefield. And everyone knows that rifle balls rotate because demons are riding on them!
There are still people that believe a load of buckshot opens to a 3' pattern as soon as it leaves the barrel of a shotgun and a .45 slug in the thumb will knock an attacker down. And some people actually chose and carry weapons based on these fables.
The rifleman that split the balls probably thought he was creating a more dangerous projectile even though he did not know for certain. The British officer believed it, so the projectile had massive effect before it was even loaded or fired.
The "average person" knows very little factual information about firearms, projectiles or their behavior on target.
Most "experts" know even less.
roundball: You may be right about the ball staying together. IMO, it depends on how deep the cuts are, but the number of turns the ball makes after leaving the muzzle doesn't have anything to do with it.
The centrifugal force trying to throw the pieces of the ball out at 90 degrees from the path of the ball take effect the very instant it leaves the muzzle of the barrel.
Just for giggles, I calculated the force acting on a .50 caliber ball shot from your favorite 1:48 twist. :grin:
At the same velocity as the post I made before and this twist, the ball is spinning at 25,500 RPM. :shocked2:
With this combination, there is .939 pounds of force acting on the balls pieces trying to make them fly outward.
If the lead can take this force without "opening up", it will reach the target in one piece.
Zonie
The centrifugal force trying to throw the pieces of the ball out at 90 degrees from the path of the ball take effect the very instant it leaves the muzzle of the barrel.
Just for giggles, I calculated the force acting on a .50 caliber ball shot from your favorite 1:48 twist. :grin:
At the same velocity as the post I made before and this twist, the ball is spinning at 25,500 RPM. :shocked2:
With this combination, there is .939 pounds of force acting on the balls pieces trying to make them fly outward.
If the lead can take this force without "opening up", it will reach the target in one piece.
Zonie
:grin: I think you better plan to saddle up and run all those tests yourself...if I can remember to do it at all the next time I go to the range, I'm just going to slice a couple Hornady's...1/4 depth, 1/2 depth, and shoot them...I think another fly in the ointment is even if sliced and spread open an eyelash, when the ball is seated it's going to get closed back up...if not then, there's ignition set-back to remembergmww said:
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