Even glued together there's going to be flattening of the balls against each other which may cause them to separate unless well glued. Either way, double loading raises pressures so go easy with a smoothbore fowler or shotgun with thinner barrels. No use ringing a good barrel!
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Shooting Double Ball
- Thread starter musketman
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Right-on Wes-Tex In the Bess, double ball means almost 1,100gr.of lead. That's eqivelent to 2 1/2 ounces of shot, higher than a modern 10 bore load & equivelent to a 19 th century, heavy 6 bore load. The 6 bore shot a 7 bore(approximately) ball ie: 1,000gr.
Herb
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I built a .40 caliber rifle for Carole (see Photo forum, 5/21/04) and she will shoot it all year long. Wants to be able to hunt deer with it. Ball weight is about 90 grains but must be at least 170 grains by Utah law. Game warden said, double ball it. Did it. Camera in shop or I'd show you. Used .380 cast, both sprues up, .020 Wal Mart blue/white awning for patch (both) and lube five parts 99% alcohol to one part Murphy Oil soap, wet at loading. Loaded one ball, then second. Used 40 gr Goex 3F, velocity drop 440 fps from single ball. Then use 70 grains. Velocity was 1765 fps, spread of 9 fps for three (double) shots. Loss again about 20 percent from single ball, BUT: First two balls hit in the same hole at 50 yards! Three-(double ball) shot group went into 1.3 inches extreme spread. That was in my 1-66 inch twist Rice barrel on my Jacob Wigle rifle. Also used 70 gr Swiss 3F and Swiss 2F. That was 70 grains measured, with the measures cut to throw weighed charges of Goex and Swiss. Chronographed single ball loads (Swiss 3F gave 2361 fps for 7 shots, spread 40 fps. Double ball loads gave 1863 fps for three shots, 15 spread). Swiss 2F grouped better, 2271 fps for six shots single ball, 41 spread. 1784 fps for three double ball loads, 18 fps spread. Group was 1.5 inches on centers. Double ball groups centered about 2" lower than single balls. I DO NOT recommend this technique to others. You've really got to load this carefully to have the second ball firmly on top of the first, and remember not to load three! I simply report what I did and my results. I'd make a loading block to hold both (greased) patched balls, and seat them both at once if hunting. EDIT: Just looked at my targets. The Goex double ball group centered about one inch HIGHER than the 2201 fps single ball group. The Swiss 3F double ball group was about 2 inches HIGHER and the Swiss 2F group was about 1.5 inches HIGHER than their single-ball groups.
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With a tight combination, the upper ball will try to separate from the lower one due to air trapped between them. This same thing happens with shotgun wads, but to a lesser extent.
; Anyone doing this, be aware this WILL happen when double balling. To make sure they are touching for firing, run the rod down at least 2 times AFTER loading the second ball, to make certain the it isn't moving back up the barrel. I have had the second ball move up a full 8" off the first ball, found when checking with the rod - So make sure you do it.
: Firing with this gap will probably burst the barrel at the position of the second ball. So- if it blows 1/2 way up the barrel, THAT's where the uper ball pushed out to.
; Anyone doing this, be aware this WILL happen when double balling. To make sure they are touching for firing, run the rod down at least 2 times AFTER loading the second ball, to make certain the it isn't moving back up the barrel. I have had the second ball move up a full 8" off the first ball, found when checking with the rod - So make sure you do it.
: Firing with this gap will probably burst the barrel at the position of the second ball. So- if it blows 1/2 way up the barrel, THAT's where the uper ball pushed out to.
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Yes - I've had the top wad pushed up to within 5" of the muzzles in a shotgun when I was using a thick overshot wad for spreading patterns. Yes, the .684" ball came up 8".
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With spit or greased patch, it will try happen in a cap-lock with single ball if the hammer is still down on a spent cap- have had that happen as well. Lift the hammer and spewwwww, out blows the air form the nipple, but not clean enough, I guess, to lift the ball off the powder. Between balls, yes, due to a better seal. The larger the bore, perhaps the easier it happens.
Herb
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Got my camera back and figured out how to do this.
Sorry you can't read the targets, but my post explains it. Carole did use the 3F Goex load for deer hunting, but didn't find a buck in her permit area. Her rifle shot this load very well.
Rat
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I tried double ball loads in a .58 minnie rifle, many moons ago...was my first BP rifle, and I really wanted to shoot round ball.
However I discovered that a minnie rifle just won't shoot ball good unless the powder charge is very "moderate". So I was trying to maintain accuracy, by keeping the powder charge the same, but increase my KO or FPE with two balls.
Anyhow, it seemed to group very good at 50 yards, but began to spread pretty good after that. Actually shot pretty good I thought, but did not really give me a sure 100 yard range. I didn't do much experimenting however, and just accepted that I would have to shoot minnies in that rifle to reach the power levels I wanted for Elk and black bear.
Plus it seemed like a "lot to do" to load up for one shot. I patched both balls, so it was kind of like loading the gun twice for one shot. Again, all things considered not worth the hassle.
It probably does make more sense in a smaller calibre rifle, but in the bigger bores, as mentioned, you are pushing some pretty heavy payloads through a relatively thin barrel. Don't think I'd try double balls in a really big bore like Bess.
Rat
However I discovered that a minnie rifle just won't shoot ball good unless the powder charge is very "moderate". So I was trying to maintain accuracy, by keeping the powder charge the same, but increase my KO or FPE with two balls.
Anyhow, it seemed to group very good at 50 yards, but began to spread pretty good after that. Actually shot pretty good I thought, but did not really give me a sure 100 yard range. I didn't do much experimenting however, and just accepted that I would have to shoot minnies in that rifle to reach the power levels I wanted for Elk and black bear.
Plus it seemed like a "lot to do" to load up for one shot. I patched both balls, so it was kind of like loading the gun twice for one shot. Again, all things considered not worth the hassle.
It probably does make more sense in a smaller calibre rifle, but in the bigger bores, as mentioned, you are pushing some pretty heavy payloads through a relatively thin barrel. Don't think I'd try double balls in a really big bore like Bess.
Rat
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Interesting - back in the 70's and 80's I found my Zouave and the 2& 3 band P.H. minnie rifles shot RB's well, right up to 140gr. 2F. In fact, they shot better, the higher I went- of course, I used a substancial patch, one that neither burnt nor cut on loading. The muzzle's required rounding in the crown to prevent cutting the 'proper' ball/patch combo.
Rat
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I never did much experimenting...really did not know much about ML at the time...but over 50 grains in my rifle and I think it turned into kind of a smooth bore...!! (accuracy wise...I assumed the ball was skidding over the rifling) Don't remember what kind of patching or lube I used.
However it shot minnie very well, especially the big ones, so I went with that and stuck to it.
I'm very surprised at your results...don't know how that shallow rifling holds the ball with those powder charges. I'll have to try it again just for fun, maybe in my new 1861, although at this point I'll be sticking to minnies in the minnie rifles, and ball in the round-ball rifle for hunting and most shooting.
Rat
However it shot minnie very well, especially the big ones, so I went with that and stuck to it.
I'm very surprised at your results...don't know how that shallow rifling holds the ball with those powder charges. I'll have to try it again just for fun, maybe in my new 1861, although at this point I'll be sticking to minnies in the minnie rifles, and ball in the round-ball rifle for hunting and most shooting.
Rat
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Even that shallow rifling was actually .004 to .005 deep, and with a 72" twist take an incredibly huge powder charge to cause stripping- with a tight patch, that is.
; Only the newer made Zouaves have a 48" twist, other than the P.H. muskets.
; The Parker Hales had progressive depth rifling, deeper at the breech, and .004" deep at the muzzle. Even in them, there was NO stripping.
: With a tight combination, even a 48" twist with .004" deep riflng will hold the ball/patch to 1,800fps. That's what took Kip's big moose at 170yards.
; Only the newer made Zouaves have a 48" twist, other than the P.H. muskets.
; The Parker Hales had progressive depth rifling, deeper at the breech, and .004" deep at the muzzle. Even in them, there was NO stripping.
: With a tight combination, even a 48" twist with .004" deep riflng will hold the ball/patch to 1,800fps. That's what took Kip's big moose at 170yards.
