shooting high

[golliej]

hello everybody. I have a traditional 50 caliber muzzleloader. I have hunted with it sparingly in years past but this year I moved to a state (virginia) where muzzloader hunting is big and I decided to put more time into sighting in my muzzleloader.

I'll start by saying that I am using 100 g of powder and 490 g punkin balls. My gun is shooting high and I have screwed my sight in as far as it will go and it still shoots high. It is good enough to about 50 yards but when I take it to 75 it is shooting to high to take a good shot at an animal. What do I do at this point to adjust my sights so it will shoot lower?

 

[roundball]

"...What do I do at this point to adjust my sights so it will shoot lower?..."

1) Assuming there's no other issues like sight picture, etc...you could install a taller front sight;
2) You could try dropping your powder charge back to 90grns, see if that helps;
3) You could install a solid brass ramrod to get more weight out front to reduce the recoil arc and make it print lower;

 

[patch knife]

Welcome Mufan , you have found the best muzzleloading forum on the net . First off , when you say pumpkin balls , I assume you mean patched roundballs (prb's). What kind of rifle are you shooting and what is the rate of twist in the rifleing ? 100 grns. is a heavy charge for a .490 prb . I would start with 50 grns. and work my way up to an accurate load in 5 grn. increments . You may also want to try different ball/patch combos , such as a .490 ball with a thicker patch or .495 ball/thinner patch , etc. . Half the fun of muzzleloading is finding the perfect patch/ball/powder combo for your particular rifle :thumbsup: . Also , when you are developing your load , it's important to swab your barrel between each shot , so the fouling in the barrel does not affect your results .

 

[hobbles]

Mornin MUFAN
I got a question, If it shoots fine at 50 yards, Wouldn't it shoot LOW at 75??

 

[paulvallandigham]

Not necessarily. With a large powder charge, the ball may be rising at 50 yds. . I do think 100 grains is a very heavy load for a .50 using Round Ball. My .50 with a .490 PRB shoots fine at 50 yds using 65 grains of FFg powder. For 100 yds, I up that to 75 Grains, which seems to be more accurate than higher charges, and the bullet only hits about 1 inch low from my point of aim. That is almost insignificant considering I am using iron sights, and cannot hold that tight at 100 yds., even from a rest! Groups are about 3-4 inches when I do my part. So far all the deer I have shot with the gun have been under 40 yds. so its more than accurate enough for hunting. My gun did not like the .495 ball and the thinner patch combination when I tried them, but I also encourage you to try that combination in the gun. I do think you should start with a lighter load of powder. If you load FFFg powder, start at 50 grains, and work up. You usually can get similar velocities with 15% less powder using 3f vs. 2f. In a percussion gun, that combination should produce good results, and a relatively easy to clean barrel. Also, since you mention the gun has an adjustable sight, I am suspecting this gun doesn't have that long a barrel. There is a limit to how much powder can be burned behind a PRB in a barrel that is less than 36 inches. Even with 3f powder, 100 grains will exceed that limit with a PRB. Now, if you use a conical, the added resistance will increase the time that the bullet is inside the barrel, and you can burn a little more powder, but if you run those loads over a chronograph, you will see where the efficiency of the load to produce more velocity for every 5 or 10 grain increment of increase in powder charge begins to fall off. More powder is only producing more recoil. Because the Round ball is ballistically so inferior, any extra velocity is lost in the first 25 yds, and the difference in velocity gain at 100 yds is insignificant, and well within the variations of velocity you get from shot to shot.

That is the technical explanation for simply saying, You are Wasting money and powder stuffing that much powder in your gun with a patched Round Ball !

The round ball kills so well because it mushrooms on impact with flesh, increasing the diameter of the ball as it continues on through the animal. This causes a very much larger primary wound channels which cause massive bleeding and a quick death. With pure lead, that ball expands regardless of velocity, and you are starting out with a projectile that is half an inch in diameter! That makes a very big wound. Adding more powder does not make it bigger. We add powder to our target load to try to flatten the trajectory of the ball in flight over the next 50 yds, a little, not to make the ball a better killer.

 

[hobbles]

Mornin paulvallandigham

" With a large powder charge, the ball may be rising at 50 yds."

Hmmm, I never thought of that,,

 

[szihn]

Install a taller front sight.
You will only need about 1/16" more hight, and that will solve your problem.
It sounds like you have a screw adjustable rear sight, so adding 1/16" to the front will put you within the adjustment range of the rear.

Good hunting
Steve

 

[arquebus]

I'd certainly suggest playing with your loads some, as 100gns does seem a bit stiff for a .50 cal. On the other topic at hand though, if you don't want to change your front sight for a new, higher one I'd suggest mixing a little JB Weld & building your current one up a bit. Go with more then you think you'll need & then file it down to suit. I just did the same thing on my repro .36 Remington C&B revolver with great results.

 

Ask someone what time it is and they tell you how to make a watch!!!

Go to our links section and get the phone # for Muzzleloader Builders Supply. Ask for Suzzie. Tell her how tall your present front sight is. She will send you a new taller sight for $5+-. It will get to you in three or four days. File it down until it hits where you look.

End of probem.

100 grains is a stout charge, but not excessive. 100 grains used to be the standard charge in a .50 cal before folks decided that the pan priming was enough to kill a deer. It is listed as safe in all of my books. If you can shoot that charge well and your gun groups well with it then use it.

 

[bramble]

Mufan,
I'm a newbie, but I'll add my 2 cents. With a much smaller charge I get thru & thru's when shooting whitetails, unless I hit bone (not counting ribs). Something to consider.
bramble

 

[faw3]

Thanks for the ""100 grains used to be the standard charge in a .50 cal before folks decided that the pan priming was enough to kill a deer."" it was getting old. Just looking thru max load charts for different rifles the first thing I saw was T/C Hawken,50cal 110 grs,MOST Green Mountain barrel's,"drop in's 50 cal 110,Browning Mountain rifle,50cal120grs,ect,ect.I use 100 in my 50 Mowrey for over 20 yrs now, 100 in my Santa Fe Hawken. Is it over kill ? yes if your shooting paper I drop to 50 - 60grs 3f but the "Q" was HUNT. :hmm: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[AZ-Robert]

I have screwed my sight in as far as it will go and it still shoots high

To lower the bullet's point of impact, you want to raise your front sight (make it taller), or lower your rear sight. On my modern CF revolvers, screwing the rear sight's adjustment screw "in" raises the rear sight by pushing it away from the barrel, which raises the bullet's point of impact. If I want to lower the bullet's point of impact, I have to screw the adjusting screw "out" so that it doesn't push the sight so far from the top of the barrel... i.e. moving the screw in pushes the sight away from the barrel, and moving the screw out allows the sight to rest closer to the barrel.

If your sight works the same way, you want to screw the adjustment screw "out" to let the sight get closer to the barrel in order to lower the bullet's point of impact.

 

[golliej]

good stuff. I am ignorant for the most part about muzzleloading. Although I've had the gun since I was a teen I was only interested in it because it got me an extra week of deer season. I basically bought some patches and balls and sighted it in good enough to hit one at 50 yards.

So what is 2F and 3F? What powder charge do you recommend? It is a short barrel.

 

[golliej]

What distance should I be trying to hit right on?

 

[golliej]

I have screwed my sight in as far as it will go and it still shoots high

To lower the bullet's point of impact, you want to raise your front sight (make it taller), or lower your rear sight. On my modern CF revolvers, screwing the rear sight's adjustment screw "in" raises the rear sight by pushing it away from the barrel, which raises the bullet's point of impact. If I want to lower the bullet's point of impact, I have to screw the adjusting screw "out" so that it doesn't push the sight so far from the top of the barrel... i.e. moving the screw in pushes the sight away from the barrel, and moving the screw out allows the sight to rest closer to the barrel.

If your sight works the same way, you want to screw the adjustment screw "out" to let the sight get closer to the barrel in order to lower the bullet's point of impact.

The rear site screw says to turn it left for "up". So I assume that turning it left will raise it and turning it right lowers the site.

 

[Rebel]

If the sight raises when you turn the screw it will raise the POI and shoot higher. You want the rear sight to go DOWN to lower the POI. And 100 grs of 3f powder is a bit much in a .50 cal. Try 70-80 grs of 3f in it. I sight mine in for 50 yds since most of the deer i have shot have been at 50 yds or less.

 

[todg]

Another BP newbie here. You didn't mention what powder you are using. I'm shooting 84gns of FFg in my TC PA Hunter - close to the recommended 80gn for best accuracy (according to TC). TC lists the range as 50-110 gns. It prints best with this load.

 

[Cherokee]

Just adding my 2 cents. i would drop that load down to 75 grains and see what it does on paper at 50 yards.
Thats still plenty of power for hunting.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Guys: Cherokee is right. 75 grains is more than enough powder ( FFg) in a .50 cal. rifle shooting a round ball. You must remember that the ball is almost 1/2" in diameter, far larger then many modern day bullets expand to after hitting the target. A .50 round ball will expand to about 60 caliber when it hits, and thats a huge primary wound channel in the deer's body. At 50 yards and under, that ball will drive completely through your deer, leaving you two blood trails, if the animal doesn't die on the spot. The ball does not have to travel fast to do this. The weight of the ball_ 180 grains- is enough to allow it to drive through the tissue and any bones it might hit. So back those charges down until you are shooting just a little high at 50 yds. Then, put a target at 75 yds, so you can get used to how far a target is and looks like at that range; then repeat that exercise at 25 yds. That way you will know how much under or over your POA the ball will hit at those other ranges. If you shoot at the lungs and heart area of a deer, you can basically hold dead on the chest, just behind the front elbow, and shoot. If you are close, the ball will go a little low and take out the heart. If you are a bit far, it will take the heart and lungs. If you are at 50 yds, it will take the lungs. Any of these will result in a very dead dear.

MUFON; FFg powder is Goex Brand Black Powder graded in several grades, Fg, FFg,Cartridge grade, FFFg, FFFFg. The first is cannon powder; the seond is rifle and shotgun powder, for rifles over .45 caliber; the cartridge grade is for BP cartridges; the third, FFFg, is for small caliber rifles, and pistols, although many people find it works quite well in their larger caliber guns( Try them both and see which shoots better for you); and the last is priming powder, intended to be used to prime flintlocks only. Your pan can also be primed with whichever powder you use in the main charge in the barrel, either FFFg, or FFg works fine. In wet weather, using the coarser grained powder to prime delays the clumping and taking on of moisture that many shooters have observed. It does not eliminate it, but you often can go 20 minutes to 30 minutes in a total down pour before having to dry the frizzen and flint, and pan, and replace the prime.

Ask away.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Well if it is decided you need a new front sight blade what I would do is center the rear sight and then use a small piece of tape folded over the front sight and shoot while trying different hights to find out how tall a front sight you need.

My buddy and I use this methode to shoot old military rifles that have sights set out to 300yds or so.

So go back to basics find the load that groups best then fix your sights.

Many of the traditional guns sold were sold with too tall a front blade and it had to be filed down. Some people filed to far and ended up with the problem you have. Even though your sights are adjustable this still may have happened.