Shooting my first flintlock/ lessons learned

[Fly103]

Yesterday was the day, i headed to the range with my new .50cal pedersoli pennsylvania rifle after completing a long arduous trek to find black powder! Firs shot was loaded with a .490 swaged ball and .010 patch on top of 40gr of 1.5f goex and 2.5gr of 4f in the pan. I drew a bead on the target at 20yds and fired. Click!.....Flash!......silence. After waiting an appropriate ammount of time i picked the flash hole and reprimed with atound 4gr of 4f in the pan, leaving the pan about 3/4 full and again took careful aim while silently repeating "aim small, miss small" and slowly squeezing the trigger. KABOOM! She fired with no appreciable delay between the flash and main charge ignition, the ball impacting about an inch right of the bullseye and I was happier than a kid at christmas!

Increasing the main charge to 60grn of 1.5f and swabbing the barrel between shots, the next 6 shots went off much the same as the first with 5 of them striking the bullseye and overall maintaining a 4 inch group. I was quite happy with my first time flintlock performance, shooting from a bench with no support other than my elbow on the table.

Trouble struck on the 8th shot, the patch/ball stuck about 8 inches below the muzzle and no amount of banging on it with my 7/16 wooden range rod was going to move it any farther. In a fit of brilliance I grabbed my factory rod i had been swabbing with, unscewed the jag and installed the ball puller on the bottom and my T handled ball starter on the top. I got the puller screwed into tha ball and gave the t handle a few good smacks, predictably the cheap factory rod snapped about 4 inches above the lower thimble leaving the ball, puller, and a chunk of broken rod in the barrel. Defeated I packed up and headed for home.

Arriving home I removed the lock/ flash hole liner and powder charge and attempted to blow it out with compressed air, no luck. Being an aircraft mechanic and moving on to the next idea, i dug around and found a grease fitting that just happened to have the required M8x1.25 thread to fit the vent hole so i scewed it in and started greasing away....and quickly discovered my junk drawer grease fitting had a bad check valve so I couldnt build any pressure. As luck would have it, not one auto supy place around has a grease fitting with the the required thread pitch so i placed an order for a few this morning and they will be here in a few days.

As i sit here writing this, with a ball and broken rod still lodged in the barrel and now a barrel half full of grease i have plenty of time to look back and reflect on every opportunity I had to break the chain of events that got me here. If im unable to pump the ball out with grease later this week I will have to find a gunsmith who can pull the breech plug and drive everything out from the back. At least I can rest easy knowing that there is so much grease in the barrel now that the black powder fouling cant possibly absorb moisture and rust the barrel so there is a bright side to it all?

All in all, despite the above misadventure, I am now addicted to flintlocks. I cant remember the last time i had so much fun shooting anything. It is definitely an art to be able to consistently hit the target and I have even more respect for those who can fire offhand and hit 24" gongs at 200 yards or more. I cant wait to get mine going again and put more lead balls down range.

Chris

 

[user 49399]

Welcome to the club! A grease fitting for nipple hole has been a game changer for me. I have always been able to clean everything out with hot soapy water.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

You had some trouble, but you also worked through solutions. Your idea of a grease fitting is one that many have resorted to, often with success.
I agree, even on a bad day when equipment fails, I enjoy shooting them more than other firearms.
A metal range rod may be in your future. I find them essential for days on the range.

 

[Crow-Feather]

What lube did you use Chris, and did you clean the rifle barrel prior to your trip to the range? As it comes from Italy, Pedersoli puts a lot of anti corrosive down the barrel. I know that you said you swabbed the barrel, but the patch has to be thick enough to fit into the grooves in order to clean the barrel. I do not know your rifle, but most Pedersoli rifles I have owned required .17 to .20 patches. But that doesn't get the ball out of the barrel. There are many remedies for stuck balls and you have tried a few. I do hope that the new grease fitting will do the job. Please try different size patches. Accuracy will improve when the correct size patch is used. Lube is a whole new ball game. I use a mixture of 2 parts Ballistol (or water soluable machine oil) to 8 parts water with a dash of liquid dish soap. There are so many other lubes and most of them will work well. Mine works for me, and I have never had a stuck ball or had to swab tween shots.
I discovered that a small amount of 4f placed below and adjacent to the touchhole provides the fastest Ignition. Small 4f dispensers are made that delivers the right amount to the right spot.
Whenever you are at a range and you see a youngster watching you shoot, with his or her parents permission, let him or her take a shot with 20 grains down the bore. Be sure to help hold the rifle. You will make a child happy and proud and bring another shooter into the fold.

 

[Bob McBride]

More often than not a steel range rod given a good whack on a tree trunk will seat an RB stuck on hard fouling. I enjoyed the read!

 

[Fly103]

I ran a couple of alcohol soaced patches down her prior to the first shot to make sure it was clear of oil from manufacturing but it sounds like i should have used a brush to really clean her and that may have been my initial undoing.

10-4 on letting youngsters take a few shots! I started shooting caplocks 20 years ago when i was 10 after an older gentleman let me take a few shots with his hawken.

I was shooting on an indoor range and after my first shot the range manager came out to take some pics and video, he said mine was the "coolest" firearm he'd ever seen on the range and he wanted to put a video on the website....

 

[Grenadier1758]

It appears that you learned why we recommend a range rod. The factory rods usually don't have the toughness for pulling a load.

The initial cleaning to clear the storage oils and grease from the bore is a good practice. You also need to make sure that the flash channel from the touch hole to the firing chamber is clear as well. This can be a pipe cleaner or one of the dental flossing brushes.

What were you using when wiping the bore periodically between shots? Every time I get a stuck ball it is because of fouling build up. You are using a good but relatively coarse grade of powder. There will be fouling that you need to control. A cleaning patch dampened with rubbing alcohol or some solvent that won't freeze up on you this time of year will be needed.

 

[M. De Land]

I'd hate to leave that fouling in there for very long. I'd clear out the powder, grease with acetone , heat dry with a heat gun then melt out the ball with a propane torch. I have had to do this numerous times with stuck lap slugs. You can't heat the barrel hot enough with a hand held porpane torch to change the metalurgy of the steel in the barrel or even ruin a decent blue or brown job before the lead melts and the ball pours out.

 

[Danny Ross]

Not sure why you wack the end of the rod with the the T handle. Downward pressure while twisting the rod will get the ball puller to screw into the ball. If you can unscrew the broken wood rod off of the ball puller and have another rod you can screw back over the threads of the ball puller and put your T handle on. Do that turn the gun upside down, place your shoes over the T on both sides all the way to the rod. Grab hold of the stock and barrel and pull upward. Might take a coupe of hard tugs to get it started, but once it does it should come out easily doing this. Putting a light oil, gun oil or 3&1 down the barrel may help also to lube it as it comes out. It is reasons like this to always have a metal (brass or steel) range rod. DANNY


As an after thought before posting this. Since the wooden ram rod is broken and the ball puller is in the ball. Cut the sharp end off the rod, take a pair of Vise grips, clamp them tight to the ram rod, stand on them as described above and pull upward.

 

[Ballshooter]

Fly103 I would try some Goex 3F both in the pan as well as for your main charge. I would think the 1.5F would fowl fast but then again I never tried it. BTW I just got my first flintlock last week a .54 Great Plains Rifle and as you have said I never had so much fun shooting. I think the flintlocks are addictive. I now want to get a .58 or a fowler.

 

[Whitworth]

A little late now but try to get a GI .50BMG cleaning rod. Made with an aluminum T-handle the rod is 3/8 diameter blued steel. Being sectional they allow for different barrel lengths and are hell for strong. The end section is slotted and threaded to accept brushes, jags and pullers. They turn up on EBAY and at gun shows, usually still new in the box from WW2.

 

[Fly103]

I was shooting 1.5f since that is all i could find locally. My local gun shop is saying mid march before their next BP order comes in ad they are currently sold out of everything except null B.

Grabbing hold of the broken rod is a no go since it broke about 5 inches below the muzzle. Ive got to push it out from behind.

Chris

 

[Livbucks]

I ran a couple of alcohol soaced patches down her prior to the first shot to make sure it was clear of oil from manufacturing but it sounds like i should have used a brush to really clean her and that may have been my initial undoing.

10-4 on letting youngsters take a few shots! I started shooting caplocks 20 years ago when i was 10 after an older gentleman let me take a few shots with his hawken.

I was shooting on an indoor range and after my first shot the range manager came out to take some pics and video, he said mine was the "coolest" firearm he'd ever seen on the range and he wanted to put a video on the website....

To get the factory protectant out of the bore I recommend Brakleen. It will remove it immediately. Do not get it on your stock. It will eat the finish. To get stuck projectiles out I have used a CO2 discharger. A blow gun from a compressor can work sometimes but the CO2 is way higher pressure. Do this outdoors into loose soil it is the same as discharging a gun! Sometimes it wont work.

 

[Ballshooter]

I would just melt it out like was said before

 

[cvco]

There is a hilarious YT video in which the guy tried and failed with a grease gun, so he bought a bigger gun and failed. Then he bought a humongous grease gun, various fittings and, who knows, maybe built 60,000lbs of pressure behind the ball and it blew out with a ton of grease behind it and if i remember, went right through the wall of the garage with grease everywhere. No damage to the rifle!

 

[olskool]

the first nightmare years ago i had was i dry balled after a few shots, i went to the hardware store and bought some steel rod. i cut a piece off and welded on a T handle. on the other end i welded on a fat screw. i screwed into the ball and put the T handle in the fork of a twin split oak tree fork, and held onto the stock and pulled! i have had to do that on a couple of other occasions for various reasons,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Springerpanhead]

I make my ram rods out of Titanium. Lighter than brass, stronger than steel, and slicker than owl poop in a rainstorm, so it doesn’t accumulate grit. Must be machined at looow speeds and extra care must be taken when attempting to thread, especially internally. Pricey, yup. But 1 is a lifetime. And, they NEVER break.

 

[Fly103]

Melting it out might have been an option before i filled the back half of the barrel with grease. I dont think i can clean enough of it out through the flash hole to make it not a fire hazzard.

My new grease fitting should be here thursday or friday so I will just have to wait til then. With half the barrel full of grease and the other half sprayed down with oil i will cross my fingers that no corrosion occurs.

Chris

 

[Siringo]

I was shooting 1.5f since that is all i could find locally. My local gun shop is saying mid march before their next BP order comes in ad they are currently sold out of everything except null B.

Grabbing hold of the broken rod is a no go since it broke about 5 inches below the muzzle. Ive got to push it out from behind.

Chris
[/QUOT

The Pedersoli, even being a flintlock, has a patent breach plug. Pedersoli's manufacture technique uses the same breach plug/barrel setup whether it is percussion or flintlock. In the percusion, a drum is screwed into the barrel. In the flintloack, the flashhole liner is screwed in. Same location, same thread. At least this is the way my Pennsylvania is.

1 1/2 may be too course to fill the breach and could result in problematic ignition. I tried 1 1/2 in my Kibler 54 colonial flintlock and it was noticeably slower ignition than 2 f. The accuracy was not good either. In my pedersoli 45 is use 3f and have had no ignition issues. I understand you could only find 1 1/2.

The preservative Pedersoli uses is made by Vavoline, if i recall. It is impervious to any solvent known to man. Search the internet and you'll find threads about removing it. Soap and water do not work. If you use a good gun solvent and brush (solvent based not water) your patches will come out rusty brown looking. This is not rust. It just the preservative being scraped free. As the preservative dries out over time, it turns into a varnish like substance. I ended up REMOVING THE BARREL FROM THE STOCK, plugging the flashole, and filling with REAL MEK (if you can find it nowadays). Lots and lots of scrubbing with a bore brush.

Good luck on getting the ball out.

 

[rafterob]

Going back to what started this adventure. You will learn when you need to swab your barrel. There are 2 schools on this; one is swab after every shot, and the second is swab when it starts getting "sticky". I am of the second school. Ambient humidity and the type of powder and lube you use can affect how many shots you get before having to swab. May be 5 shots, may be 20. When swabbing, use a damp patch, not wet. Run it down the bore and let it set a few seconds then remove. Flip the patch over and repeat. Follow that with a dry patch. Do not pump the patch up and down, that can force crud and moisture into the breech and flash channel (then you have another problem to deal with). If you get in the position like you did, with the load stuck part way down, pour in a little water and let it soak for a minute. Dump out any excess and you should be able to ram it down. Fire the load right away before the water works its way into the powder. Has always worked for me. You may eventually run into the same scenario with a dry patch in a fouled bore. Use the same method to loosen it up.