Shooting shot out of a rifle?
- Thread starter Cjcalls
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
wilded
40 Cal.
Bad ideal. At the very best you will have a blown pattern with no shot in the center.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 320
I haven't tried it in a ML rifle, simply because I worked with it so much in an assortment of cartridge guns. Speer makes shot capsules to load your own for 38 and 44 caliber handguns. CCI provides factory loads for 22s. At one time TC made barrels and offered loads and components for their Contender in 357 and 44. The barrels even had special "chokes" to help open the plasitc shot capsules, and the shot loads were pretty substantial.
I messed with all of them, plus ginned up a few of my own for other handgun calibers, as well as trying some of the 357 caliber shot cartridges in 35 Remington, 358 Winchester and 35 Whelen rifles.
Performance across the board was so erratic that I couldn't depend on the loads at any range at all, as in chasing small games or wing shooting. I did use a bunch of the 357 Speer loads in handguns over the years in serious snake country. They worked fine at those ranges, but frankly so would a big stick.
It would be a fun project to try doing it in a ML rifle while protecting the rifling, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. If I had saved all the money I spent on components messing around, I'm sure I could have bought several smoothbores and still had change for loads.
I messed with all of them, plus ginned up a few of my own for other handgun calibers, as well as trying some of the 357 caliber shot cartridges in 35 Remington, 358 Winchester and 35 Whelen rifles.
Performance across the board was so erratic that I couldn't depend on the loads at any range at all, as in chasing small games or wing shooting. I did use a bunch of the 357 Speer loads in handguns over the years in serious snake country. They worked fine at those ranges, but frankly so would a big stick.
It would be a fun project to try doing it in a ML rifle while protecting the rifling, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. If I had saved all the money I spent on components messing around, I'm sure I could have bought several smoothbores and still had change for loads.
Yes you can shoot shot out of it, but you won't get any kind of usable pattern with it. Been there, done that, don't work.
A .20 ga is a good choice, unless you plan to hunt ducks and gesse a lot. Then i would go with a .12 ga. But you can use a .20 on them too, just that the .12 ga gives you a little better pattern with more shot.
Yes you can. Mine shoots a patched .600 rd ball. My .12 ga. uses a .690 rd. ball. Probably more rd. balls are shot out of tradeguns, fowlers and such than shot. :imo:
I would think that you could IF you load it like an (gulp) inline...
Use a tall .50 caliber sabot like a shotgun's shot cup/wad, then top it off with shot and run it down on top of the powder, finish it off with an overshot card to hold it all in place...
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 320
Hey Musketman. That's too obvious a solution! I.e., why didn't I think it after all these years? A good idea for anyone with ambitions to shoot shot from a rifle, and it will probably work better than anything I have ever tried. It would be REALLY INTERESTING to see what effect twist rate had on patterns.
I don't see why it wouldn't work, the rate of twist would more that likely open the pattern, but the shot cloud may hold together long enough to blast critters out to about 25-30 yards...
Thinking more on the loading process after the powder, I would start the sabot and push it just below the muzzle's crown, add the shot and then the over-shot card, then ram all three items down on top of the powder at one time..
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 320
"Thinking more on the loading process after the powder, I would start the sabot and push it just below the muzzle's crown, add the shot and then the over-shot card, then ram all three items down on top of the powder at one time."
That's how I used conventional plastic shotgun wads in my shotgun. Worked like a charm. The biggest issue in the whole scheme would be finding tight overshot-cards. I bet you would have to cut your own.
That's how I used conventional plastic shotgun wads in my shotgun. Worked like a charm. The biggest issue in the whole scheme would be finding tight overshot-cards. I bet you would have to cut your own.
A .50 cal is basically a 28 ga. and would use 3/4 oz to 7/8 oz of shot. He said it had a twist rate of 1/66, but to make the math easy use a slower twist of 1/72" (or 1 turn in 6 feet). Slow the velocity down to 1000fps which is more in line with shotgun velocities and the shot charge is gonna be spinning at 1000fps x (1 revolution/6ft) or 166 revolutions per second. That's 10,000 rpm's. A modern 28 ga shotgun with cylinder bore choke is hard pressed to give effective patterns at 25-30 yards. Skeet shooters put some choke in it to be effective on clays at 21 yards. Throw in the loss of shot due to spinning at 10,000 rpms and I don't think it's gonna be much good on anything unless you're holding it down with one foot when you pull the trigger.
And even if it's not spinning, it's clipping the rifling as it passes and, in addition to leading the bejezus out of your barrel, will be deforming the shot on the outside of the column.
I have a .45 Colt/.410 barrel for my Contender. The shot capsule cartridges (no longer available) required a 1-1/2" tube insert that had 1/8" deep straight grooves to open the plastic shell and stop the spin. It was good for about 20 FEET even then. The .410 without the insert was about the same.
I have a .45 Colt/.410 barrel for my Contender. The shot capsule cartridges (no longer available) required a 1-1/2" tube insert that had 1/8" deep straight grooves to open the plastic shell and stop the spin. It was good for about 20 FEET even then. The .410 without the insert was about the same.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 906
- Reaction score
- 1
Mr. Stumpkiller,
Now that is interesting. Do believe we have the same setup and ours is deadly out to 40yds or so; Grouse and Hares. We use 3" #6s (I think, would have to check the box.) It shoots such a tight pattern that we won't shoot under 25yds as we tear them up too bad.
Never ceases to amaze me how two firearms that appear the same will perform so very differently. Guess we got lucky.
We are looking to replace our Contender with a muzzle loading flintlock pistol for day to day use. Have our eye on a couple of different types that are available via mailorder.
Best Wishes
Now that is interesting. Do believe we have the same setup and ours is deadly out to 40yds or so; Grouse and Hares. We use 3" #6s (I think, would have to check the box.) It shoots such a tight pattern that we won't shoot under 25yds as we tear them up too bad.
Never ceases to amaze me how two firearms that appear the same will perform so very differently. Guess we got lucky.
We are looking to replace our Contender with a muzzle loading flintlock pistol for day to day use. Have our eye on a couple of different types that are available via mailorder.
Best Wishes
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 906
- Reaction score
- 1
Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. We have only used our Contender with the muzzle adapter that stops the spin of the shot cup. Agree it is as deadly as our .410 which we really treasure.
Best Wishes
Best Wishes
Windwalker & Deadeye,
Are you shooting the .410 with the "chopper" in place? I didn't think that was supposed to be done. That would certainly be my problem. I thought the insert was only to shatter the hard plastic capsules the old T/C "shotbullets" fired (of which I only ever bought 20). I feared the .410 wads might hang-up in the tube long enough to be a pressure problem (been a LONG time since I checked the manual . . . like 28 years. :haha
.
It don't do bad a'tol as a .45 LC pistol, either. I have a SSK chopped & concave crowned 7-1/2" .44 Mag barrel with a white bead front that it wears 99% of the time (cut-down from a 14" bbl so that it has a "full-length" forend). SUPER accurate iron-sighted pistol that fits a 6" revolver holster. My other frame is married to a .223 Rem 21" carbine barrel with a Williams peep. That one's a honey, too.
Maybe I should drag out the old cannon and light off a few .410 rounds. I haven't played with that in YEARS.
(Hope the Moderators don't yell at me for straying into Breecherville).
Are you shooting the .410 with the "chopper" in place? I didn't think that was supposed to be done. That would certainly be my problem. I thought the insert was only to shatter the hard plastic capsules the old T/C "shotbullets" fired (of which I only ever bought 20). I feared the .410 wads might hang-up in the tube long enough to be a pressure problem (been a LONG time since I checked the manual . . . like 28 years. :haha
. It don't do bad a'tol as a .45 LC pistol, either. I have a SSK chopped & concave crowned 7-1/2" .44 Mag barrel with a white bead front that it wears 99% of the time (cut-down from a 14" bbl so that it has a "full-length" forend). SUPER accurate iron-sighted pistol that fits a 6" revolver holster. My other frame is married to a .223 Rem 21" carbine barrel with a Williams peep. That one's a honey, too.
Maybe I should drag out the old cannon and light off a few .410 rounds. I haven't played with that in YEARS.
(Hope the Moderators don't yell at me for straying into Breecherville).
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2004
- Messages
- 906
- Reaction score
- 1
Mr. Stumpkiller,
If by "chopper" you are refering to the thingee that screws onto the end of the barrel, then yes. The straight "rifling" seems to grab ahold of the shot cup and stop the spin one would normally encounter. Don't know how it would react to direct contact with "bare" shot.
As with yourself, have used the shot capsules for .44Mag and had a hard time killing even a Red Squirrel beyond 10 or 12'. The rifling seemed to really scatter the shot pattern and we gave up on it for obtaining food for the pot.
Best Wishes
If by "chopper" you are refering to the thingee that screws onto the end of the barrel, then yes. The straight "rifling" seems to grab ahold of the shot cup and stop the spin one would normally encounter. Don't know how it would react to direct contact with "bare" shot.
As with yourself, have used the shot capsules for .44Mag and had a hard time killing even a Red Squirrel beyond 10 or 12'. The rifling seemed to really scatter the shot pattern and we gave up on it for obtaining food for the pot.
Best Wishes
Similar threads
